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Caryl Leventhal's Fourth Deposition Taken 19 July 2000 and Posted in its Entirety |
For those using music capable Internet Explorer or AOL, text accompanied by Marlene Dietrich's "Falling In Love Again"
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Ms. Leventhal's deposition was conducted within an environment of crank calls, and a recorded death threat by the US Department of Justice that the Leventhals either drop the process or be taken care of, "Nazi style." Subsequently, Alan R. Kaufman Chief of the US Attorney's Office Criminal Division (through Ms. Leventhal's Attorney) will threaten arrest and prosecution if this website isn't censored). Caryl Leventhal was one of the first US Department of Justice Immigration and Naturalization Service whistleblowers to the type of terrorist friendly corruption and indolence endemic in the USDOJ Immigration and Naturalization Service that will subsequently lead to the death of thousands in America. Thanks to the way laws are structured in America, this can not be a bases of her suit. These concerns and obstructionism in the internal USDOJ INS Administrative Complaint Process motivated Ms. Leventhal to bring her suit to court. She hopes to get testimony to these abuses before it is too late. Some of this can be found in the deposition of Brenda Grant. With a cruelty only exceeded by those who brutalized Caryl Leventhal, the Eric B. Fisher, Assistant US Attorney has dragged her final Deposition into the heat of summer. Caryl is brain damaged from an exacerbation of Multiple Sclerosis brought on by those the USDOJ is protecting. Since 1996, hot weather has become her enemy. And yet, in hope of disabling Caryl with her first exacerbation of Multiple Sclerosis since 1996 (thus, keeping her from continuing in the judicial process), she is forced into a fourth Deposition in the summer months. This is done in spite of prior pleas from her husband to finish her Depositions before the onset of hot weather.
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219
CLEVENTHAL
1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
3
4 CARYL B. LEVENTHAL,
5 Plaintiff,
6 - against -
7 HON. JANET RENO, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE
8 UNITED STATES,
9 Defendant.
10 ---------------------------------X
11 July 19, 2000
10:15 a.m.
12
13
14 CONTINUED DEPOSITION of CARYL B.
15 LEVENTHAL, taken by the Defendant,
16 pursuant to Notice, held at the offices of
17 Michael Bressler, Esq., 36 West 44th
18 Street, Suite 1100, New York, New York,
19 before Debbie Zaromatidis, a Shorthand
20 Reporter and Notary Public of the State of
21 New York.
22
23
24
25VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 220
C. LEVENTHAL
1 APPEARANCE S
2
3 MICHAEL BRESSLER, ESQ.
4 Attorney for Plaintiff
5 35 West 44th Street, Suite 1100
6 New York, New York 10036
7
8 MARY JO WHITE, ESQ.
9 United States Attorney
10 Southern District of New York
11 100 Church Street
12 New York, New York 10007
13 BY: ERIC B. FISHER, ESQ.
14
15
16 ALSO PRESENT:
17 DANIEL LEE
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 221
C. LEVENTHAL
1 C A RY L B . L E V E N T H A L ,
2 having first been duly sworn by a Notary
3 Public of the State of New York, was
4 examined and testified as follows:
5 EXAMINATION BY MR. FISHER:
6 Q. Good morning, Ms. Leventhal.
7 Since this is our fourth session now, you
8 know my name is Eric Fisher, and I
9 represent Janet Reno, the defendant in
10 this action.
11 If at any point today I ask you
12 a question that is not clear to you,
13 please let me know, and I will be happy to
14 rephrase it.
15 Is that clear?
16 A. It is .
17 Q. If at any point you need to take
18 a break for your own comfort, please let
19 me know, and I will happy to do so.
20 A. Right .
21 Q. I only ask that we not break
22 while a question is pending.
23 Is there any condition that you
24 are aware of that would interfere with
25 your memory or your ability to provideVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 222
C.LEVENTHAL
1 accurate testimony today?
2 A. No, there is not.
3 May I read a statement please
4 into the record?
5 Q. Does this statement relate to
6 the question I just asked?
7 A. It relates to the case.
8 Q. Certainly.
9 A. Okay. Thank you.
10 "I feel marginally okay now,
11 but I have multiple sclerosis. I get
12 fatigued very easily. When I become
13 fatigued I suffer mental confusion. I
14 could easily misunderstand the questions
15 and give wrong answers.
16 "Since the people the U.S.
17 Department of Justice is protecting
18 brought on my last exacerbation of
19 multiple sclerosis in the summer since of
20 1996, hot weather has become my enemy.
21 Since March 2000, we have pleaded with you
22 to complete my depositions before the
23 onset of hot weather. I am fearful that
24 the actions of the U.S. Attorney's office
25 might bring on my first exacerbation sinceVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 223
C. LEVENTHAL
1 1996. I believe that your dragging my
2 depositions into the summer months is
3 punitive, planned, cruel and inhuman."
4 Q. Ms.Leventhal, if at any point
5 today you are not feeling well, please let
6 me know, and we will terminate the
7 deposition immediately.
8 A. Yes. Right.
9 Q. Is it your understanding that I
10 am intentionally dragging on these
11 depositions -
12 A. That is my perception.
13 Q . Please let me finish the
14 question.
15 A. I am sorry.
16 Q. -- in order to cause injury to
17 you?
18 A. I believe that you dragged the
19 depositions into July, which is normally
20 very hot and humid in New York City, to
21 create a situation where it would be very
22 difficult if next to impossible for me to
23 testify to the best of my ability.
24 Now, fortunately if I may
25 finish, the weather has been very kind,VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 224
C. LEVENTHAL
1 and I feel that I am being looked after if
2 you want to put it that way, so I feel
3 very good about that.
4 Q. Again, if at any point today you
5 are not feeling well, please let me know,
6 and I'll be happy to terminate the
7 deposition.
8 A. Understood.
9 Q. Also at if at any point today
10 because of your deposition or for some
11 other reason you become confused and you
12 are not answering my questions accurately,
13 please let me know, and we will terminate
14 the deposition at that point as well.
15 A. Yes .
16 Q. Ms. Leventhal, did there come a
17 time when you were fired from the INS?
18 A. I am sorry.
19 Q. Did there come a time when you
20 were fired from the INS?
21 A. Is that a statement or -
22 Q. It is a question.
23 A. Is there a time I was fired
24 from INS in August of 1996.
25 Q. And how did you first learn thatVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 225
C. LEVENTHAL
1 you were fired? 2 A. By letter. From a -- I am 3 trying to remember his name. Mr. McElroy, 4 he sent me a letter. 5 MR. FISHER: I will ask the 6 court reporter to mark as Defendant's 7 Exhibit C a letter from Mr. McElroy dated 8 August 8, 1996. 9 (Defendants' Exhibit C marked 10 for identification.) 11 (Document handed to witness.) 12 Q. Ms. Leventhal, is that a copy of 13 the letter that you just referred to? 14 MR. BRESSLER: This is C. I am 15 sorry?
16 MR. FISHER: Yes.
17 A. It looks familiar. It looks
18 familiar, yes.
19 Q. Is that the letter that you
20 received notifying you of your
21 termination?
22 A. Yes, I believe so.
23 Q. And before you received this
24 letter, did you learn of your termination
25 from anyone else?
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226CLEVENTHAL
1 A. No, I did not.
2 Q. And after you received this
3 letter, did you have any conversations
4 with Mr. McElroy about your termination?
5 A. I don't believe I did.
6 Q . This letter refers to a
7 probationary period?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. In your employment.
10 What is your understanding of
11 what that probationary period is?
12 A. The probationary period was for
13 a year from the time that I started in
14 employment, which I believe was in October
15 of 1995, and there were to be reviews. I
16 had a review I believe an intermediate
17 review, which was June 7, 1996. I was due
18 for a final review, but I was terminated
19 before that could take place.
20 Q. And after an employee emerges
21 from a probationary period after that22 initial year --
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. -- what status does that
25 employee then have?
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227CLEVENTHAL
1 A. They become either permanent,
2 full time or they may be terminated
3 because to my understanding there is a
4 final review, which, as I said before, I
5 was fired before that took place, could
6 take place.
7 Q. Do you have an understanding as
8 to whether probationary employees may be
9 fired before they complete their first
10 year of employment?
11 A. That was not explained to me.
12 Q. Did anyone at any point explain
13 to you termination procedures in
14 connection with probationary employees at
15 INS?
16 A. No, they did not.
17 Q. So what is the basis for your
18 belief that termination typically had to
19 await a final review at the end of the
20 one-year period?
21 A. Because from my understanding
22 there had to be the intermediate review,
23 which I received, and it then had to be a
24 situation where I would be counseled,
25 which I was not, and then there would be aVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 228
C. LEVENTHAL
1 final review. Then, according to the 2 final review, to my understanding, it 3 would be a situation where I would be or 4 the individual would be either classified 5 as permanent or possibly would be 6 terminated at that time.
7 Q. And your your intermediate
8 review as you have referred to was on June
9 7, 1997?
1 0 A . Yes, it was .
11 Q. And that was a Friday?
12 A. Yes, it was.
13 Q. And then the following Monday,14 June 10, you did not return to work? 15 A. I was not able to. 16 Q. And the June 7, 1996 review was 17 a critical review? 18 A. Yes, it was . 19 Q. And before you received that 20 review, you had been criticized by your 21 supervisors, right? 22 A. There were times that they had 23 criticized me, but they did -- I would 24 ask them how can I do this job better, how 25 can I perform my duties in a better way,
VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 229
C. LEVENTHAL
1 and those were basically ignored. The
2 response was, oh, you should know how to
3 do this, and that was basically my goal,
4 to try to find out how to do the job
5 better. I was denied access to this
6 information.
7 Q. Who do you believe was
8 responsible for your termination?
9 A. I believe it was Brenda Grant
10 and also Agatha Stewart.
11 Q. And in your view, why is it that
12 you were terminated?
13 A. I did not fit into-the type of
14 person that they felt should be in that
15 position. I was the first non-African
16 American in that position in decades, in
17 over-20 years. I didn't fit into the
18 section this was the area that I was
19 in, section 245. I did not fit into if
20 you want to call it the demographics of
21 that area. I was different from them. I
22 was not like them. They could not relate
23 to me, and when I tried to, as I said
24 before, get information, you know, access
25 to basically the information flow, I wasVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 230
C.LEVENTHAL
1 denied that.
2 Q. So do you believe that you were
3 terminated because you did not fit into
4 what you've described as a certain
5 demographic?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And what are the features of
8 that demographic?
9 A. The features of that demographic
10 at that time in 1996 were basically
11 African American. I believe there were
12 two or three Caucasians, one person that
13 was Asian, and I did not fit in.
14 Q. So you did not fit in according
15 to your testimony because you were not
16 African American?
17 A. Yes .
18 Q. Is there any other way in which
19 you did not fit in that you believe also
20 contributed to your termination?
21 A. Well, I was not married to an
22 African American. I did not have
23 photographs of African American children
24 on my desk as my at that time first line
25 supervisor, who was Agatha Stewart, who isVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 231
C.LEVENTHAL
1 Caucasian,who is married to an African
2 American. Basically it was a situation
3 where I just was not the type of person
4 -- this is my perception that fit into
5 that particular, you know, slot.
6 Q. Aside from the demographic of
7 not being African American, are there any
8 other features that you believe made you
9 different from others in section 245 and
10 contributed to your termination?
11 A. What may have contributed is the
12 fact that I wanted to observe Jewish
13 holidays, such as Yom Kippur and Rosh
14 Hashanah, and it was a situation where
15 Brenda Grant, who when I started was my
16 first line supervisor, but after January
17 1996 became my second line supervisor.
18 She did not find, this is my perception,
19 she did not find that in keeping with the
20 way she viewed the person who was a
21 supervisory application clerk should be.
22 I want to take off Yom Kippur, and she
23 denied me that holiday, and that is very
24 important. I mean that is a holiday that
25 I will not work on.VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 232
C. LEVENTHAL
1 Q. And in addition to not being
2 African American and your observance of
3 Jewish holidays, are there any other
4 features that you believe made you
5 different from other employees in section
6 245 and also contributed to your
7 termination?
8 A. I wanted to -- basically I
9 wanted to make the work flow -- I wanted
10 the work itself to be done accurately, but
11 I needed the information to be able to do
12 that, and I perceived that the attitude
13 with Brenda Grant to a lessor extent
14 Agatha Stewart, because I was on the tenth
15 floor, Agatha Stewart was on the eighth
16 floor, but with Brenda Grant definitely it
17 was a situation where the work would be
18 processed -- I perceived that her
19 attitude was to basically do the work, the
20 cases, excuse me, push them through as
21 quickly as possible whether they weredone
22 correctly or not.
23 Now, being a new employee having24 started in October of 1995, okay, my --
25 the people who interviewed me for the
VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 233
C.LEVENTHAL
1 position originally said, oh, we will
2 train you when you start because I said,
3 you know, I haven't done this type of work
4 before.
5 Q. Ms. Leventhal, I would like to
6 cut you off there because I don't think
7 you are answering the question.
8 I am not asking you about work
9 performance or what kind of assistance you
10 received at work.
11 The question is simply aside
12 from your not being African American and
13 your practicing Judaism, are there any
14 other features that you believe make you
15 different from others in section 245?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And were cause for your
18 termination?
19 A. Well, it may also have been I
20 have multiple sclerosis. I have always
21 been very open about this. I have been
22 proud of the fact that I have been able -
23 until my encounter with INS and the
24 Justice Department, I was always able to25 work full time. I was originally
VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 234
C. LEVENTHAL
1 diagnosed with multiple sclerosis I 2 believe it was March of 1992, and from 3 that time on and even before, I had 4 managed to work productively full time, 5 and I my perception is that the fact 6 that I have multiple sclerosis made them 7 uncomfortable for whatever reason. 8 Q. Do you believe that they 9 terminated you because you have multiple 10 sclerosis? 11 A. I don't know that. I don't know 12 that. It is a possibility. 13 Q. Do you have any facts that 14 support the possibility that your 15 termination was motivated by your having 16 multiple sclerosis? 17 A. Well, the very fact that I was 18 not able to do the lifting, lifting cases, 19 you know, the cases themselves, files that 20 would way anywhere from 30 to 50 pounds, I 21 would tell them I can't do this. This is 22 difficult. I have multiple sclerosis. 23 This is very dangerous. I mean I am a 24 small person, I am 5-2. Even in the best 25 of circumstances even before I was
VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 235
C.LEVENTHAL
1 diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, I
2 wasn't, you know, Ms. Muscles. It wasn't
3 a situation like that at all, and I think
4 it just made them very uncomfortable, but
5 that is my perception.
6 Q. From 1992 when you testified you
7 were first diagnosed with multiple
8 sclerosis until you began your employment
9 with INS, you were employed at
10 Intercontinental?
11 A. Yes .
12 Q. At Clairol?
13 A. No, it first it was I was
14 first employed, okay, Intercontinental
15 data management executive recruitment,
16 program systems analyst and after that -
17 this was a business that my husband and I
18 myself had. He continued with that. I
19 had gotten to the point where I wanted to
20 do something different.
21 Q. I am asking you where were you
22 employed during that period?
23 A. Okay. After that I was working
24 part time at Clairol on the phone and I
25 was doing basically customer relations,VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 236
C.LEVENTHAL
1 which is a lot of pressure, which I 2 enjoyed. 3 Q. Again, please just list your 4 employment for me. 5 MR. BRESSLER: What is the 6 question? What was her employment in what 7 period? 8 MR. FISHER: From 1992 until she 9 was employed at the INS.
10 A. Okay. 1992, I was working at
11 Reiss Reports, which is -- which is
12 market research, and then from 1995,
13 October of 1995 I was working for INS.
14 Q. And your employment at Reiss
15 Reports was full time?
1 6 A . Yes, it was .
17 Q. And before that you were
18 employed at Clairol?
19 A. Before that I was employed part
20 time at Clairol.
21 Q. How many hours a week did you
22 work at Clairol?
23 A. I was working there 20 hours a
24 week .
25 Q. And when you worked with your
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237C.LEVENTHAL
1 husband at Interncontinental, how many
2 hours a week did youwork?
3 A. 75, 80.
4 Q. 75, 80 hours a week?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. After you learned of your
7 termination in August of 1996, did you
8 have any conversations with an employee-of
9 the INS concerning your termination?
10 A. I don't believe I did.
11 Q. Ms. Leventhal, do you currently
12 have a treating physician?
13 A. I am sorry?
14 Q. Do you currently have a treating
15 physician?
16 A. I don't understand.
17 Q. Do you have a primary care
18 physician?
19 A. Oh, yes, I do.
20 Q. And what is that person's name?
21 A. Dr. Kam C. Poon, P-o-o-n.
22 Q. And for what period of time have
23 you been seeing Dr. Poon?
24 A. I have been seeing him since I
25 believe approximately 1975, '74. It mayVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 238
C.LEVENTHAL
1 have been even before that.
2 Q. And is Dr. Poon a specialist in
3 multiple sclerosis?
4 A. I don't know whether he is a
5 specialist or not in multiple sclerosis.
6 He has done a lot of work in that area.
7 Q. Are you seeing any other doctors
8 aside from Dr. Poon?
9 A. Not at this time.
10 Q. Between 1992 and the present,
11 have you seen any doctors in connection
12 with your multiple sclerosis?
13 A . Yes, I have.
14 Q. And who are they?
15 A. I don't have their names
16 offhand. Okay. These are neurologists
17 when I had to go for what they call an
18 MRI. Okay, but I don't have their names
19 offhand.
20 Q. Aside from those occasions when
21 you went for MRIs, did you ever see a
22 doctor for treatment in connection with
23 your multiple sclerosis aside from Dr.
24 Poon?
25 A. I am. Sorry, there was oneVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 239
C.LEVENTHAL
1 doctor, a Dr. Pincus. Okay. He is a 2 neurologist. 3 Q. And when did you see Dr. Pincus? 4 A. I believe that was -- again I 5 don't have the date. It may have been 6 1995, 1996. 7 Q. And who referred you to Dr. 8 Pincus? 9 A. There wasn't a referral. It was 10 -- he is basically in my neighborhood. 11 He is in Park Slope. 12 Q. And do you know whether Dr. 13 Pincus has a specialty in treating 14 patients with multiple sclerosis? 15 A. Well, he is a neurologist. 16 Q. And why is it that you went to 17 see D-r. Pincus? 18 A. Basically, I wanted to, you 19 know, have a neurologist, you know, give 20 me an examination basically confirming 21 what I already knew. 22 Q. And how many visits did you have 23 with Dr. Pincus? 24 A. I believe one or two.
25 Q. And do you remember what it is
VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 240
C. LEVENTHAL
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A . sclerosis nothing I Q. A. Q. A . Q.
that Dr. Pincus told you about your condition?
Well, he said you have multiple
There is no cure. There is can do for you. Did he recommend
any treatments? There are no treatments. Is Dr. Poon a
neurologist? I don't believe so. And has Dr. Poon recommended anytreatment or other course of conduct for your multiple sclerosis?
A.
Q .
Yes, he has.
What has he recommended?
A. Staying away from stress. He says this is the thing you must do, stay away from stress, stay away from heat, hot weather, no heavy lifting. He said with your type of multiple sclerosis you must not expose yourself to heat, hot weather, heavy lifting because he explained that multiple sclerosis is different with each individual, and it is unpredictable in that respect.
So Dr. Poon notified you that
(212) 267-6868
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(516) 608-2400 241
C.LEVENTHAL
1 hot weather may exacerbate your symptoms
2 of multiple sclerosis?
3 A. And especially in my case
4 stress.
5 Q. I am asking about hot weather.
6 A. I am sorry, yes. Hot weather.
7 I am sorry.
8 Q. Dr. Poon notified you that hot
9 weather may exacerbate your symptoms of
10 multiple sclerosis?
11 A. Right. He did.
12 Q. He also notified you that stress
13 may exacerbate your symptoms of multiple
14 sclerosis?
15 A. Yes, he did.
16 Q. And he also said that heavy
17 lifting may contribute to your symptoms of
18 multiple sclerosis?
19 A. He may have, yes.
20 Q. He did or he may have?
21 A. He did. I am trying to be very
22 specific. Again, it has been a while.
23 Q. And when did he provide you with
24 this advice?
25 A. There was a conversation IVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 242
C. LEVENTHAL
1 remember in I believe it was June, July of
2 1996. June of 1996 when I was having my
3 exacerbation, the last exacerbation I
4 had.
5 Q. Since June of 1996, have you
6 taken measures to try to reduce your
7 stress?
8 A. Yes, I have.
9 Q. What have you done?
10 A. I have stayed away from again
11 stressful situations. I have stayed out
12 of heat, hot weather. I don't engage in
13 strenuous physical activity, which I am
14 not capable of doing at this point
15 anyway.
16 Q. You say you stayed away from17 stressful situations. Are there
18 particular situations that you have
.19 eliminated from your life or that you've
20 tried to avoid in order to reduce the
21 stress in your life?
22 A. Well, basically, the stressful
23 situation was again the treatment I
24 received from the people you are defending
25 at INS. That was the major thing.VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 243
C. LEVENTHAL
1 I mean there is everyday stress
2 that everybody has, which is obvious.
3 Q. Is this lawsuit stressful to
4 you?
5 A. No, it is not. It is not
6 stressful to me at all.
7 Q. Aside from your employment at
8 INS, are there other life stresses that
9 you believe contributed to the
10 exacerbation in your symptoms of multiple
11 sclerosis?
12 A. Not that I can think of.
13 Q. Are there any situations, for
14 example, with your landlord or landlady
15 that contributed to -
16 A . No.
17 Q. -- the exacerbation of your
18 symptoms of multiple sclerosis?
19 A . No.
20 Q. Please let me finish. The
21 answer I believe was no?
22 A . No.
23 Q. Are there any family-related
24 stresses -
25 A . No .VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 244
C. LEVENTHAL
1 Q. -- that contributed to the
2 exacerbation of your symptoms of multiple
3 sclerosis?
4 A . No.
5 Q. So is it your testimony that
6 only the stress of working at the INS
7 contributed to the exacerbation of your
8 symptoms of multiple sclerosis?
9 A . Yes .
10 Q. How frequently do you visit with
11 Dr. Poon for treatment or for examination?
12 A. Probably I would say every six
13 months, maybe every three months.
14 Q. And what is the purpose of the
15 visit every three months?
16 A. Well, he is also I see him
17 of course when I go to when I go to
18 him with my husband, who also is a patient
19 of his, and, you know, he'll check -
20 basically give me a brief checkup to see
21 how I am, my reflexes, that type of thing,
22 you know, just to see how I am doing
23 basically.
24 Q. From 1990 until now, aside from
25 Dr. Poon and Dr. Pincus, have you visitedVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 245
C. LEVENTHAL
1 with any other doctors for any reason?
2 A. There was one neurologist that I
3 saw in I believe it was-- I am trying to
4 think of the date exactly, 1992, a
5 neurologist. I can't think of his name
6 offhand, and basically he diagnosed me as
7 having multiple sclerosis.
8 Q. All right.
9 Is there something that would
10 help refresh your recollection as to what
11 his name was?
12 A. I can't think of it offhand.
13 Q. At home would you have any
14 records?
15 A. I may. I am pretty sure we do.
16 Q. I would ask you to please look
17 at those records and have your attorney
18 notify me as to the name of that
19 neurologist?
20 A. Okay. Certainly. I am sorry.
21 I just remembered, Dr. Undricht, and
22 please don't ask me to spell it because I
23 can't because, but he was the one that
24 officially diagnosed me with multiple25 sclerosis.
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C. LEVENTHAL
1 Q. Then I'll ask your attorney
2 still to provide me with the spelling of
3 his name and his office location.
4 A. Okay.
5 Q. Thank you.
6 Aside from Dr. Poon, did any
7 other doctor who you visited with notify
8 you about the relationship between stress
9 and the exacerbation of symptoms of
10 multiple sclerosis?
11 A. Dr. Pincus may have.
12 Q. Specifically, do you remember
13 him saying anything about the relationship
14 between stress and MS?
15 A. Again, it has been quite a while
16 since I have seen Dr. Pincus, so I can't
17 attest to the exact conversation.
18 Q. Do you remember having such a
19 conversation even if you can't remember
20 the words used in that conversation?
21 A. Well, I do remember him telling
22 me there is no cure for multiple
23 sclerosis. This is something you are
24 going to have to live with, and that was25 basically it.
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C. LEVENTHAL
1 Q. So you can't remember him
2 specifically telling you that there is
3 some relationship between stress and MS?
4 A. I can't specifically remember,
5 but again I -- he may have said that.
6 Q. If he had said that, would it be
7 memorialized anywhere in writing?
8 A. I don't know.
9 Q. You are not aware of it being in
10 writing?
11 A. Not at this time I am not.
12 Q. Did any other doctors who you
13 visited with from 1990 until the present
14 talk to you about the possible
15 relationship between stress and MS?
16 A. There is a doctor in
17 California. Now, I didn't speak with him
18 directly. Okay. I think his name is Dr.
19 Mohr. I believe he is with the University
20 of San Francisco, and I believe my husband
21 had communicated with him, and he is -
22 he does a lot of research on MS, and he
23 believes that stress is a strong
24 contributing factor to multiple
25 sclerosis. I think it is M-o-h-r. I
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248C. LEVENTHAL
1 believe it is the unit of San Francisco. 2 Q. But you never spoke to Dr. Mohr? 3 A. Not directly. 4 Q. You never spoke to Dr.Mohr? 5 A. I never spoke to him. I am 6 sorry. 7 Q. Thank you. 8 And he never treated you or 9 examined you? 10 A . No . 11 Q. Aside from Dr. Undricht, Dr. 12 Pincus and Dr. Poon, can you remember any 13 other doctors who have treated you or 14 examined you from 1990 until the present? 15 A. I cant. 16 Q . From 1990 until now, have you 17 visited with any psychiatrists or 18 psychologists? 19 A. I did see a psychoanalyst - 20 psychotherapist, excuse me, a 21 psychotherapist, a Dr. Betsey, if I can 22 pronounce this correctly, Bittinmier, 23 whatever. 24 Q. Just for the record, I think it 25 is Bittlingmaier,
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1 B-i-t-t-l-i-n-g-m-a-i-e-r.
2 A . Right .
3 Q. When did you visit with Dr.
4 Bittlingmaier?
5 A. I visited with her -- I am
6 trying to remember. This was the spring,
7 into the summer of I believe it was 1997.
8 Q. And were you referred to that
9 doctor?
10 A. I was referred to that doctor by
11 my health plan, my medical plan.
12 Q. And what was the purpose of your
13 visit with Dr. Bittlingmaier?
14 A. Well, I was very upset. I was
15 very depressed, and I was very angry, very
16 angry about the treatment that I had
17 received at INS, and I remember, and I was
18 telling her that I am having nightmares
19 about what happened to me at INS,
20 dreaming. You know, this would be a
21 couple of times a week, and I would wake
22 up crying, very upset, very nervous, and I
23 said do you think I am depressed. She
24 says no, I don't think you are depressed.
25 I said I think you are right, and she saysVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 250
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1 what I suggest you do is write this out.
2 I said well I want to talk it out with
3 you. We did that. We discussed the whole
4 thing.
5 Q. Over approximately how many
6 sessions did you discuss the issues
7 surrounding your employment at INS?
8 A. About eight to ten sessions and
9 then she moved away.
10 Q. And when she moved away, did you
11 start seeing a different psychologist or
12 psychiatrist or psychotherapist?
13 A. No, I did not .
14 Q. Did you feel as though Dr.
15 Bittlingmaier had helped relieve some of
16 your anxiety concerning those issues?
17 A. Yes, she did. She helped me put
18 it into perspective.
19 Q. Did you discuss any other
20 sources of anxiety or stress in your life
21 with Dr. Bittlingmaier?
22 A. No, that was basically it.
23 Q. You said that you were referred
24 to Dr. Bittlingmaier by your health plan.
25 How did that referral comeVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 251
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1 about?
2 A. Again, since I was having
3 nightmares, since I was very upset, I
4 decided, well, I need someone to talk to
5 because I felt that it was a situation
6 where it was unending, and I wanted to
7 speak with, you know, a therapist and see
8 if I could just, you know, work on it. So
9 I wouldn't be thinking about it all the
10 time. So they gave me -- they referred a
11 few therapists, and I went and I saw her.
12 Q. At some point, did you start
13 writing about your experiences as an
14 employee at INS?
15 A. I did.
16 Q . Do you have copies of what you
17 have written?
18 A. I do not.
19 Q. What happened to them?
20 A. I ripped them up.
21 Q. When did you rip them up?
22 A. Usually it was after I wrote
23 them because I said, okay, I have gotten
24 this out of my system. I have written it
25 down. I have gotten it out of my system.VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 252
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1 Now it is gone. 2 Q. And did you start writing about 3 your experience after your visits with Dr. 4 Bittlingmaier? 5 A. Yes, or during I should say. 6 Q. So that was sometime in the
7 spring or summer of 1997?
8 A. '97, '98. I am trying to
9 remember which year it was. It may have
10 been '98 actually.11 Q. And when was the last time that 12 you wrote something about your experience 13 as an employee at INS?
14 A. Well,as I said, it would have 15 been summer, spring or summer of 1997, 16 ' 9 8 . 17 Q. Have you retained anything of 18 what you have written about those 19 experiences? 20 A. Not that I can think of, no.
21 Q. Since 1990, have you been
22 hospitalized for any reason?
23 A. No. Excuse me. Yes, I have.
24 Something totally unrelated. I had
25 fibroid tumor, and I went in for an
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1 operation, and I believe that was -- that 2 was in -- I know when it was. It was
3 January of 1992 .
4 Q. Aside from that hospitalization,
5 are there any other hospitalizations from
6 1990 until the present?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Are you currently on any
9 prescription medications?
10 A. I am not.
11 Q. From 1990 until the present,
12 have you been on any prescription
13 medications?14 A. No. No. 15 Q. Have you ever been on 16 prescription antidepressants? 17 A. When I had -- wait a minute. I 18 take that back. I am sorry. When I had 19 seen Dr. Pincus, although he is a 20 neurologist, I remember he looked at me. 21 He says, well, you are depressed. He says 22 yes, you are. You are depressed. So he 23 gave me some medication for that. I took 24 a few, and I immediately threw it out
25 because it didn't change things one way or
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1 the other.
2 Q. Do you recall what he
3 prescribed?
4 A. I don't offhand. It may have
5 been an antidepressant.
6 Q. And do you recall when it was
7 that he prescribed the antidepressants?
8 A. When I saw Dr. Pincus. I am
9 trying to remember specifically when that
10 was .
11 A. That may have been 1996.
12 Q. And for how long did you take
13 the antidepressants that he had
14 prescribed?
15 A. Probably about one or two
16 weeks. Maybe three weeks.
17 Q. And what was his recommendation
18 as to how long you should take the
19 antidepressants for?
20 A. Well, he just gave me a
21 prescription. He says, oh, take this. He
22 didn't really go into detail.
23 Q. Did he tell you how much to take
24 them?
25 A. Basically, it was I believe once
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255C.LEVENTHAL
1 a day. 2 Q. And did he schedule a follow-up
3 visit with you?
4 A. No, he did not.
5 Q. Did he tell you for how long he 6 recommended you continue to take the 7 antidepressants once a day? 8 A. He just said, you know, visit 9 me, you know, on your next visit. We will 10 discuss it. 11 Q. Was there a next visit? 12 A. No, there was not. 13 Q. Why not? 14 A. I wasn't fond of him because I 15 didn't feel that he had the understanding 16 of how multiple sclerosis, this is just my 17 perception, an understanding of how 18 multiple sclerosis can affect a person. 19 Q. And Dr. Pincus was a 20 neurologist? 21 A. Dr. Pincus was a neurologist. 22 Q. After you were dissatisfied with 23 Dr. Pincus, did you try to find some other 24 neurologist to address your MS? 25 A . No .
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1 Q. Why not?
2 A. Because there is no cure for
3 MS.
4 Q. I understand that there is no
5 cure, but is there anything that
doctors
6 can do to help to alleviate some of the
7 symptoms of MS?
8 A. Not to my knowledge.
9 Q. Since your termination from INS,
10 have you held any employment?
11 A . No .
12 Q. Have you personally had any
13 sources of income?
14 A. Personally, no. I apologize. I
15 am on social security disability. I am
16 classified as fully disabled, completely
17 disabled.
18 Q. When is it that you were
19 classified as fully disabled?
20 A. I believe that that was in
21 1997.
22 Q. And were you examined by a
23 doctor in connection with that finding of
24 full disability?
25 A . Y e s .VERITEXT
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1 Q. Who was the doctor who examined 2 you? 3 A. This was a doctor that was 4 provided by social security. I don't know 5 the person's name. 6 Q. Did you prepare an application
7 for your social security benefits?
8 A. I went with my husband to the
9 social security office. 10 Q. And did you submit an 11 application? 12 A . I - - ye s . 13 Q. Do you have any of the paperwork
14 that relates to your application for 15 social security benefits? 16 A . I may. 17 Q. Such paperwork would be called 18 for in our document requests, so I would 19 ask, Mrs. Leventhal, that you search for 20 those documents and provide them to your 21 attorneys, so that he can provide them to 22 u s . 23 A. okay. 24 Q. Thank you.
25 Was there any kind of hearingin
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1 connection with the determination that you
2 were fully disabled for purposes of social
3 security?
4 A. When you say a hearing, now at
5 social security they have case workers.
6 Okay,. I met with a case worker. I was
7 examined by their doctor. I am trying to
8 think if there was an actual hearing. I
9 mean how would you classify -- how would
10 you describe a hearing?
11 Q. Well, aside from meeting with
12 the case worker and being examined by a
13 doctor, did you meet with any other
14 individuals or have to appear before any
15 other individuals in connection with the
16 determination that you were fully disabled
17 for purposes of social security benefits?
18 A. I don't know. I mean please
19 forgive me. My memory is not as good as
20 it once was.
21 Q. Right now, you can't remember?
22 A. At this point I can't. Though I
23 may remember it later.
24 MR. FISHER: I'll ask the court
25 reporter to mark as Defendant's Exhibit DVERITEXT
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1 a two-page document that says form SSA 2 1099. 3 (Defendant's Exhibit D marked 4 for identification.) 5 (Document handed to witness.) 6 Q. Ms. Leventhal, is this a copy of 7 your social security benefit statements 8 for 1997 and 1999?
9 A. Okay. I see 1998. Okay, date
10 1998. Okay. Yes. 1997.
11 Q. And is the other, the second 12 page, a copy of your benefits statement 13 for 1999? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And the amounts listed on these 16 statements, do they accurately reflect the 17 amount of benefits that you received in 18 each of those years? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. As social security benefits? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Did you receive social security 23 benefits in 1998?
24 A. Now, this says benefits paid in
25 1997. Benefits paid in 1999.
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260C.LEVENTHAL
1 Q. Right. The question is did you
2 receive any benefits in 1998?
3 A. I probably did, yes.
4 Q. We haven't received any
5 documents that relate to 1998 social
6 security payments.
7 So, Ms. Leventhal, I would ask
8 you to make a search and to the extent
9 that any such documentation is in your
10 custody that you provide it to your
11 attorney, and that he provide it to us.
12 A. Okay.
13 Q. Aside from social security
14 benefits, have you received any other
15 forms of government benefits whether city,
16 state or other types of federal benefits
17 since your termination from INS?
18 A . No .
19 Q. Have you received any insurance
20 payments since your termination from the
21 INS in 1996?
22 A . N o .
23 MR. FISHER: I'll ask the court
24 reporter to mark as Defendant's Exhibit E
25 a document bearing Bates numbers US 11VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 261
C. LEVENTHAL
1 through US 16.
2 (Defendants' Exhibit Emarked
3 for identification.)
4 (Document handed to witness.)
5 Q. Ms. Leventhal, is this a copy of
6 a complaint that you filed with the
7 Department of Justice?
8 A . Yes .
9 Q. And is that your signature at
10 the bottom of the first page?
11 A . Yes .
12 Q. And if you turn to page U.S. 15,
13 the second to last page, is that your
14 signature as well?
15 A . Y e s .
16 Q. And did you review this document
17 before it was filed?
18 A. Yes, I did.
19 Q. And above your signature on page
20 US 15, there is something which says, "I
21 wish my initial representative to be," and
22 identifies Michael Leventhal as your
23 initial representative.
24 A . Yes .
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C.LEVENTHAL
1 as your representative for purposes of 2 equal employment opportunity proceedings 3 relating to your employment at INS? 4 A . Y e s . 5 Q. And he was authorized to speak 6 on your behalf? 7 A . Y e s .
8 MR. FISHER: I'll ask thecourt
9 reporter to mark as defendants' ExhibitF
10 a document bearing Bates numbers US 72
11 through US81.
12 (Defendant's Exhibit F marked
13 for identification.)
14 (Document handed to witness.)
15 Q. Ms. Leventhal, is this a copy of
16 an affidavit that you submitted in
17 connection with the EEO investigation that
18 related to your employment at the INS?
19 A. Yes .
20 Q. And is that your signature on
21 the last page of the document?
22 A. Yes .
23 Q. And throughout the document
24 there are certain handwritten notations
25 that have your initials next to them.
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263C.LEVENTHAL
1 Did you initial those
2 handwritten notations?
3 A. Yes, I did.
4 Q. How was it that this affidavit
5 was prepared?
6 A. I met with a Mr. Peter Schilling
7 at 26 Federal Plaza, and he interviewed
8 me. He wanted me to tell him the whole
9 story of what had happened to me during my
10 termination at INS, and he asked me
11 questions, and I answered them.
12 Q. And did he type out the
13 affidavit?
14 A. Yes, he did.
15 Q. And did you then review it?
16 A. Yes, I did.
17 Q. And are the handwritten18 notations your corrections to the 19 affidavit in? 20 A. Yes, they are. 21 Q. And then after you reviewed it, 22 you signed it? 23 A. Yes . 24 MR. FISHER: I am going to ask
25 the court reporter to mark as Defendant's
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C.LEVENTHAL
1 Exhibit G a copy of certain pages from a
2 web site.
3 (Defendant's Exhibit G marked
4 for identification.)
5 (Document handed to witness.)
6 Q. Ms. Leventhal, are you familiar
7 with the web site from which these pages
8 were printed?
9 A. Yes, I am.
10 Q. And who created the web site?
11 A. This was created at my request,
12 at my request, my supervision by my
13 husband Michael Leventhal. This is my
14 site, but it was created basically by me.
15 Q. When you say at your
16 supervision, what do you mean by that?
17 A. I unfortunately don't have the
18 ability at this point because of again my
19 experiences at INS to -- and basically
20 how that is impacted on my multiple
21 sclerosis to do this kind of writing or
22 graphics work, and basically I told my
23 husband. He said what do you want for
24 Hanukkah this year. This was in 199 -- I
25 believe in 1999. I said I want a webVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 265
CLEVENTHAL
1 site, and I want to tell -- I want this
2 to be able to tell the world what happened
3 to me, so basically that is what he set up
4 for me, and I tell him exactly what I want
5 put on the web site.
6 Q. Do you review the content on the
7 web site?
8 A. Yes, I do. Anything that goes
9 on the web site is approved by me. Many
10 things that my husband may have wanted on
11 the web site I have said no. This does
12 not go up.
13 Q. And in your view,does the web
14 site contain an accurate description of
15 the events in this lawsuit?
16 A. Yes. Yes, it does.
17 MR. FISHER: I'll ask the court
18 reporter to mark as Defendant's Exhibit H
19 a letter to Mr. McElroy dated August 15,
20 1 9 9 6 .
21 (Defendant's Exhibit H marked
22 for identification.)
23 (Document handed to witness.)
24 Q. Ms. Leventhal, is this a letter25 from you to Mr. McElroy?
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C. LEVENTHAL
1 A. Yes, it is.
2 Q. And did you send this letter?
3 A. Yes, I did.
4 Q. And if you look at the first
5 sentence in the letter, it says "As in the
6 past, this letter is being written by my
7 husband, Major Michael G. Leventhal, using
8 my words."
9 Did you actually dictate the
10 letter?
11 A . Yes .
12 Q. Did you dictate all of your
13 husband's correspondence with the INS
14 following your termination?
15 A . Yes , I did.
16 Q. Do you also dictate the contents
17 on the web site?
18 A. For the most part, yes.
19 MR. FISHER: Why don't we just
20 take a short break now.
21 (Recess taken.)
22 MR. FISHER: Back on the record.
23 (Defendant's' Exhibit I through
24 K marked for identification.)
25 Q. Ms. Leventhal, I hand you whatVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 267
C. LEVENTHAL
1 the court reporter has marked as
2 Defendant's' Exhibit I, J, and K. They
3 are three letters dated December 28, 1996,
4 January 28, 1998, and March 22, 1998.
5 (Documents handed to witness.)
6 Q. Please review those three
7 documents and let me know whether those
8 are letters that you wrote to the INS?
9 A. Okay. Yes. Your question?
10 Q. The question is: Do you
11 recognize these to be documents that you
12 wrote to the INS?
13 A. Yes .
14 Q. And as with other documents we
15 have reviewed today, you have reviewed
16 these documents before sending them?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q . I note that some of these
19 documents are not signed.
20 Do you know whether signed
21 versions exist?
22 A. The signed versions were sent to
23 the individual.
24 Q. So are these then accurate25 copies of the signed versions which you
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C.LEVENTHAL
1 sent on to the INS? 2 A. Yes. Yes. 3 MR. FISHER: I'll ask the court 4 reporter to mark as Defendant's Exhibit L 5 a one-page memo dated December 28, 1995. 6 (Defendant's Exhibit L marked 7 for identification.) 8 (Document handed to witness.)
9 Q. Ms. Leventhal, please review
10 this memo and tell me whether you remember
11 writing this memo? 12 A. Yes, I recognize this. 13 Q. And is this a memo to Sean 14 Davis? 15 A. Yes, it is. 16 Q. Did you supervise Sean Davisat 17 the time you wrote this memo? 18 A. Yes, I did. 19 Q. And what is the subject ofthe 20 memo? 21 A. Sean Davis was one of the 22 clerks, clerical pool, and he wantedto 23 take time off, and it was a situation 24 where oftentimes he did not have leave 25 available, and I sent him this memo, so he
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CLEVENTHAL
1 would be aware that basically he had to
2 make sure that he would have leave
3 available and also, too, as I see there
4 has been a pattern of four late arrivals
5 per pay period. That was a problem with
6 Sean Davis. He was constantly coming in
7 late without an excuse.
8 Q. And this memo refers to AM
9 2224. Specifically if you look at the
10 last paragraph, for example, you'll see a
11 reference to that.
12 What does that refer to?
13 A. Okay. I don't have the manual
14 in front of me. Okay. I am assuming that
15 this basically describes the type of leave
16 that would be available for employees if
17 they-have leave coming to them.18 Q. Does it also describe how you go 19 about getting authorization for leave? 2 0 A . It may. 21 Q. At the time that you wrote this 22 memo, were you familiar with AM 2224?
23 A. At that time, I must have been.
24 Q. Ms. Leventhal, I see, that you
25 brought notes with you to today's
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270C. LEVENTHAL
1 deposition.
2 Are some of those notes
3 different from notes that you brought to
4 previous depositions?
5 A. I brought ones that you've seen
6 before. I brought one about the
7 nightmares that I had and am still having,
8 and if you want to make a copy of this, I
9 certainly would give that to you, all of
10 them as a matter of fact, and also my
11 opening statement, which is slightly
12 different than the one which you had seen
13 before okay, and basically I had also
14 written another memo. This is basically
15 again I have multiple sclerosis, so
16 oftentimes I have to have notes to keep
17 focused, keep my focus. One is
18 information was kept from me to keep me
19 from working at peak efficiency. I was
20 kept out of planning - -
21 Q. Ms. Leventhal, I'll make a copy
22 of the memos. The question was whether
23 there were some additional notes that you
24 brought with you.
25 A. Okay. There are.VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 271
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1 Q. And I'll be sure to copy them at
2 the conclusion of your deposition.
3 A . Sure .
4 MR. FISHER: I'll ask the court
5 reporter to mark as Defendant's Exhibit M
6 a copy of certain handwritten notes.
7 (Defendant's Exhibit M marked
8 for identification.)
9 (Document handed to witness.)
10 Q. Ms. Leventhal, please review
11 this exhibit, and let me know whether this
12 is a copy of certain notes that you
13 brought with you to previous depositions
14 in this case?
15 A. Yes, these are my notes.
16 Q. If you look at the first page,
17 specifically the first four entries I'll
18 quote them for the record "No, I don't
19 know. I don't recall. I can't be sure."
20 What was the purpose of those
21 notations?22 A. Basically, for me, again, in a 23 situation like this being deposed I have 24 to be very focused on the questions that 25 you are asking, and this is to remind me
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C.LEVENTHAL
1 of answers rather than just running off 2 with the mouth so to speak, and that is
3 very important. 4 Q. So did you prepare these notes? 5 A. Yes, I did. 6 Q. And you prepared them in advance 7 of the deposition? 8 A. Yes, I did. 9 Q. And these notes including the 10 entries that I read into the record were 11 intended to remind you of possible answers 12 to questions at the deposition? 13 A. Yes . 14 Q. So, for example, you had to be 15 reminded that no or I don't know were 16 possible answers that you wished to give 17 to questions that I might ask you at the 18 deposition? 19 A. That is true. 20 MR. FISHER: I'll ask the court 21 reporter to mark as Defendant's Exhibit N 22 the amended complaint in this case. 23 (Defendant's Exhibit N marked 24 for identification.) 25 (Document handed to witness.)
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1 Q. Ms. Leventhal, did you review
2 this complaint before your attorney filed
3 it?
4 A. Yes, I did.
5 Q. And to the best of your
6 knowledge, is it an accurate complaint?
7 A. Yes, it is.
8 Q. I refer you to page 14 of the
9 complaint, there is a paragraph that
10 begins "Wherefore" in bold.
11 A. Yes .
12 Q. In that paragraph, item 1, says
13 "Defendant be ordered to compensate,
14 reimburse and make whole plaintiffs for
15 all the benefits they would have received
16 had it not been for defendant's illegal
17 actions, including but not limited to pay,
18 benefits, training, promotions and
19 seniority within interest."
20 Focusing on item number 1, what
21 pay, benefits, training, promotions and
22 seniority, do you believe you did not earn
23 as a result of the discrimination that you
24 claim to have suffered at INS?
25 A. Backpay, front pay, and againVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 274
C.LEVENTHAL
1 benefits.
2 Q. Back pay for what period of
3 time?
4 A. The back pay would have been for
5 -- well, the back pay would have been
6 really from the time I was terminated
7 until the present time.
8 Q. And do you know what amount that
9 would be?
10 A. Not offhand I don't.
11 Q. And what does your front pay
12 claim consist of?
13 A. That would be what I would be
14 receiving in the future.
15 Q . And how would that be
16 calculated?
17 A.. That would be calculated
18 according to the yearly salary, plus
19 bonuses including benefits until the time
20 of retirement. Then of course there would
21 be retirement benefits after that.
22 Q. Since you were terminated from
23 INS, have you sought other employment?
24 A . No, I have not.
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1 A. I am unable to work. I am
2 totally disabled.
3 Q. And again the only income that
4 you've earned since your termination has
5 been the social security benefits that you
6 testified to earlier?
7 A. Yes.
g Q. If you focus on item number 3 in
9 that same wherefore paragraph, it lists
10 actual and consequential physical damages
11 that were caused by her acute -- I am
12 referring to page 14, item number 3 in the
13 paragraph that begins wherefore. It says
14 "Actually and consequential physical
15 damages that were caused by her acute
16 exacerbations of multiple sclerosis
17 between June 1995 and September 1996."
lg What amount do you seek in
19 connection with those consequential
20 physical damages?
21 A. A dollar amount?
22 Q . Yes .
23 A. That I would have to refer to my
24 attorney. That I can't calculate, so I25 would have to refer to him.
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1 Q. We have sent interrogatories in
2 this case seeking to have damages itemized
3 with great specificity and your attorney
4 indicated that upon the conclusion of
5 discovery, those interrogatories would be
6 answered, and so I'll simply make a
7 request on the record that at this time,
8 since we are close to the close of
9 discovery that carefully itemized damages
10 be provided to us.
11 Are you seeking compensation for
12 any medical costs that you incurred as a
13 result of your alleged treatment by INS?
14 A. I may do that. That again I
15 have to discuss with my attorney.
16 Q. How are your medical costs paid
17 for?
18 A. They are paid for through my
19 insurance plan. I should say, excuse me,
20 my husband's insurance plan.
21 Q. And since your termination from
22 INS, have you incurred any out-of-pocket
23 medical expenses that relate to injuries
24 you claim to have suffered as a result of25 discrimination?
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1 A. Well, I've seen the
2 psychotherapist also, too. I have seen my
3 doctor about my exacerbations that I
4 suffered, you know, as a result of being
5 at INS, and as far as dollar amounts again
6 that is something you would have to
7 discuss with my attorney.
8 Q. Your visits with the
9 psychotherapist and with your doctor, were
10 those paid for by your husband's insurance
11 plan?
12 A. Yes, they were.
13 Q. Did you have any out-of-pocket
14 expense in connection with those medical
15 visits?
16 A. For each visit there may have
17 been a co-payment of maybe $20.00.
18 Q. Aside from your visits with Dr.
19 Bittlingmaier, have you from 1990 until
20 the present been treated by some other
21 doctor for anxiety, depression or some
22 other psychological problem?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Aside from the claimed
25 exacerbation of multiple sclerosis in 1995VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 278
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1 and then again in 1996, from 1990 to the 2 present have you had any other instances 3 that you would describe as exacerbations 4 of multiple sclerosis? 5 A. No, I have not. 6 Q. From the time that you were 7 first diagnosed with multiple sclerosis 8 until early 1995 before your claimed 9 exacerbation, what symptoms of multiple 10 sclerosis did you experience?
11 A. When I was first diagnosed with 12 MS, it was a situation where the eyesight 13 I believe it is in my left eye went out 14 for about three to four weeks, and MS 15 being unpredictable in that respect it 16 came back. okay. But as far as any type 17 of exacerbation or symptoms, you know, 18 there really haven't been aside again from 19 what we have discussed, you know, with INS 20 in 1995 and 1996. 21 Q. So aside from what we have 22 discussed beginning in 1995, you 23 experienced no other symptoms of multiple 24 sclerosis except for loss of sight in your 25 left eye?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Did you experience any weakness
3 as a result of your multiple sclerosis?
4 A. Not really, no.
5 Q. Did you experience any
6 short-term memory problems?
7 A . No.
8 Q. When you claim that your
9 multiple sclerosis became exacerbated in
10 1995, focusing on that first exacerbation,
11 did you see a doctor specifically in
12 connection with those intensified symptoms
13 of multiple sclerosis?
14 A . Ye s .
15 Q. Was that Dr. Poon?
16 A. Yes.
17 ¢. At that time, did you seea
18 neurologist?
19 A. I believe I did.
20 Q. Who was that?
21 A. He has a long name, and I can't
22 pronounce it.
23 Q. Was that Dr. Undricht?
24 A. No, that was earlier,. That was
25 in 1992 when I was first diagnosed. In
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1 1995, I had an MRI, okay, but I can't 2 recall the individual's name. 3 Q. Did the doctor who took the MRI 4 also examine you? 5 A. I can't recall offhand. 6 Q. Did he tell you anything about 7 your multiple sclerosis?
8 A. No, this was just -- I am
9 sorry. This was just the MRI, but in 1995
10 I believe it was Dr. Poon.11 Q. So aside from Dr. Poon and the 12 doctor who took the MRI, you did not see 13 any other doctors in 1995 in connection 14 with your claimed exacerbation of multiple 15 sclerosis? 16 A. It may have been Dr. Pincus at 17 that time that I mentioned before and his 18 neurologist.
19 Q. In 1996 when you claim that your
20 multiple sclerosis was exacerbated again,
21 did you treat with Dr. Pincus at that
22 time?
23 A. Well, at that time I definitely
24 saw -- I know you are asking about Dr.
25 Pincus. I don't have the dates in front
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1 of me. It may have been 1996 with Dr.
2 Pincus. It may have been.
3 Q. And you visited Dr. Pincus one
4 or two times?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Aside from Dr. Pincus, you did
7 not see any other neurologists with
8 respect to that exacerbation of your
9 multiple sclerosis?
10 A. I don't recall. I may have.
11 Please excuse me. I am not trying to be
12 difficult. It is just that my memory is
13 not what it should be.
14 MR. FISHER: I'll ask the court
15 reporter to mark as Defendant's Exhibit O
16 a copy of the answers to interrogatories.
17 (Defendant's Exhibit O marked
18 for identification.)
19 (Document handed to witness.)
20 Q. Mrs. Leventhal, if you turn to
21 page 9 of Exhibit O.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Is that your signature?
24 A. Yes, it is.
25 Q. Above your signature it says
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1 that you read and reviewed the 2 interrogatories before signing; is that 3 right? 4 A. Yes. Yes, it is. 5 Q. Ms. Leventhal, do you have a 6 sister? 7 A. Yes, I do.
8 Q. And what is your sister's name'?
9 A. Susan.
10 Q. And was there an extended period
11 of time when you and your sister did not
12 see each other?
13 A . Y e s .
14 Q. And how long was that period of
15 time?
16 A. Well, my sister and I, you know,
17 we see each other, and then we don't see
18 each other, so there is -- she was in the
19 army, and there was a period of time when
20 she was oversees where I didn't see her
21 for about four or five years.
22 Q. And then was there a period when
23 you were reunited with her?
24 A. Yes .
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1 A. We were reunited I believe in
2 -- well, we were reunited in 1991, '92.
3 Even before that I believe.
4 Q. Is that something that you
5 discussed with Dr. Bittlingmaier?
6 A. I may have, yes.
7 Q. The reunion that you discussed
8 with her, when did that reunion take
9 place?
10 A. I don't know offhand.
11 Q. Was there an extended period of
12 time when you and your sister were in a
13 fight or estranged from each other?
14 A. There may have been, yes. Yes.
15 Q. Yes, there was?
16 A. Yes, there was.
17 Q. And when was that?
18 A. Well, as I had mentioned her
19 being in the army, we weren't really in
20 contact, and there was a period of time
21 when we really didn't speak to each other
22 I believe in the 1980s.
23 Q. And do you have a stepson?
24 A. Yes, I do.
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1 with your stepson?
2 A. Not right now I am not.
3 Q. How long has it been that you
4 have not been in touch with him?
5 A. It has been a few years.
6 Q. Aside from your stepson, do you
7 have any other children?
8 A. No, I do not.
9 Q. Were you terminated from Reiss
10 Reports?
11 A. I was terminated because I had
12 originally resigned. I had given them
13 notice, and this was to work at INS. The
14 offer was rescinded by INS. I went to
15 Reiss to Carrie Shapiro, my supervisor.
16 She said yes, you can stay here, and you
17 can continue working for us, but I think
18 it was a few weeks after that, she said I
19 am sorry, Caryl, we are going to have to
20 let you go because it is company policy
21 not to reinstate a person if they have
22 resigned. She did not want to do this,
23 but this was company policy.
24 Q . Were there any other, reasons --25 A. No. I am sorry.
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1 Q. -- that contributed to your
2 termination from Reiss Reports?
3 A . No.
4 Q. And aside from Reiss Reports
5 and the INS, had you ever been terminated
6 from a job before?
7 A . N o .
8 Q. The web site that we discussed
9 earlier refers to a death threat by
10 telephone.
11 A . Ye s .
12 Q. Do you believe that that death
13 threat has anything at all to do with this
14 case?
15 A. Yes, I do.
16 Q. And when did this telephone call
17 happen?
18 A. This was in I believe April of
19 1998. I have it recorded. It came in on
20 my answering machine, and I have it on
21 tape. It is recorded.
22 Q. Do you still have the tape?
2 3 A . Yes, I do .
24 Q. I would ask your attorney to
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1 And why is it that you believe
2 that this telephone call is related to
3 this lawsuit?
4 A. Because when you listen to the
5 tape, the way -- may I say the word.
6 Q. Certainly.
7 A. Okay.
8 Q. Actually as accurately as you
9 can possibly describe what is on the
10 tape .
11 A. Okay. It was a male voice. It
12 was at 12, 1:30 in the morning -- Saturday
13 night, excuse me, early Sunday morning,
14 male voice, very menacing tone. "You
15 fucking, Jew. You don't know when to
16 quit, you and your -- you and your
17 fucking wife. We are going to get you
18 Nazi style," and then it goes on and on,
19 but you have to listen to it because that
20 was what really stuck with me, and
21 needless to say I was very upset. It was22 terrifying.
23 Q. Do you know whose voice it is on
24 the tape?
25 A. I didn't recognize the voice.
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1 Q. Does the content of the tape in
2 any way refer to your employment at INS?
3 A. Basically, you'll listen to the
4 tape. You'll hear what it says, but it
5 says you fucking Jew, you and your looney
6 wife. We are going to get you Nazi
7 style. I have an unlisted number. We
8 have two unlisted numbers, excuse me, two
9 phones, two unlisted numbers. Nobody has
10 those numbers except for people at INS.
11 That is it, and of course relatives. I
12 don't know of anyone else who would have
13 made that -- that call.
14 MR. FISHER: I have no further
15 questions at this time. Over the course
16 of the deposition it became clear that
17 there may be certain doctors whom Ms.
18 Leventhal treated with and certain other
19 information that she will be providing to
20 u s .
21 (Continued on next page.)
22
23
24
25
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1 It may be that in light of that
2 new information it will be necessary to
3 continue the deposition, but for now the
4 deposition is closed.
5 MR. BRESSLER: Thank you.
6 (Time noted: 12:00 p.m.)
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 CARYL LEVENTHAL
1516 Subscribed and sworn to before me 17 this day of 2000 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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Commentary and Editor's Notes written and Copyright © by: LTC Michael G. Leventhal
Copyright 2000 Reproduction with written permission. Contact: Michael @Justice-Denied.net