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July 31, 2000... The US Attorney Deposes Caryl Leventhal's husband, Lieutenant Colonel Michael G. Leventhal. Deposition in its Entirety |
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Michael Leventhal is a computer specialist, published author and a reserve military officer holding the rank of Lieutenant Colonel. He received a decoration during Desert Storm and in 1998, was decorated for bravery (while in uniform) when he saved the life of a civilian at a homicide scene. After September 11, 2001 LTC Leventhal will be placed on active duty to protect the American people from the terrorism brought on by the terrorist friendly actions of the US Department of Justice Immigration and Naturalization Service. During the Administrative Process conflict with USDOJ/INS from September 1996 until October 1999, LTC Leventhal fought his wife Caryl's legal battles alone. He is not an attorney. This was done within an environment of crank calls, and a recorded death threat by the US Department of Justice that the Leventhals either drop the process or be taken care of, "Nazi style." Subsequently, Alan R. Kaufman Chief of the US Attorney's Office Criminal Division (through Ms. Leventhal's Attorney) will threaten arrest and prosecution if this website isn't censored). Caryl Leventhal was one of the first US Department of Justice Immigration and Naturalization Service whistleblowers to the type of terrorist friendly corruption and indolence endemic in the USDOJ Immigration and Naturalization Service that will subsequently lead to the death of thousands in America. This includes the selling of Green Cards (permanent visas) at INS 26 Federal Plaza NYC and issuing of visas without proper background checks. Thanks to the way laws are structured in America, this can not be a bases of her suit. On the other hand, it was the prime motivating reason for employees within the US Department of Justice to want Caryl Leventhal out and replaced by someone more amenable to criminal and indolent behavior. These concerns and obstructionism in the internal USDOJ INS Administrative Complaint Process motivated Ms. Leventhal to bring her suit to court. She hopes to get testimony to these abuses before it is too late. Some of this can be found in the deposition of Brenda Grant. (NOTE: There are numerous although minor technical errors in this deposition. At times, Mr. Leventhal spoke quickly and emotionally. Words were picked up incorrectly although they do not appear to create ambiguity as to his responses. Some have correction notations for clarity. Others will be corrected as the deposition is reviewed.) |
2
M. LEVENTHAL
1 APPEARANCES:
2
LAW OFFICES OF
3 MICHAEL R. DRESSLER, ESQ.
Attorney for Plaintiff
4 36 West 44th Street
New York, New York 10036
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BY: LILA AYERS, ESQ.
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UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
8 UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS OFFICE
Attorney for Defendant
9 100 Church Street
New York, New York 10007
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BY: ERIC B. FISHER, ESQ.
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KLEVENTHAL 1 M I C H A E L L E V E N T H A L , a
2 Non-Party Witness herein, having first been
3 duly sworn by the Notary Public, was examined
4 and testified as follows
5 EXAMINATION BY MR. FISHER:
6 Q. What is your name?
7 A. Michael Leventhal.
8 Q. Where do you reside?
9 A. --- ---- -----, Brooklyn, New York
10 11215-3046.
11 Q. Good morning. My name is Eric Fisher. I
12 am an Assistant United States attorney that
13 represents the defendant in this case. I am
14 going to ask you a number of questions today.
15 If, at any time, you don't understand the
16 question as I put it to you, let me know. I
17 will be happy to rephrase my question to make
18 myself understood.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Let me finish my question before you
21 provide your answer so the court reporter can
22 take down everything that we say. If, at any
23 time today you need to take a break, let me
24 know. I will be happy to take a break.
25 A. Okay.VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 4
M. LEVENTHAL
Q. Is there any condition that you are aware of that would in any way interfere with your ability to give complete and accurate testimony today?
A. No, sir.
Q. Mr. Leventhal, are you currently employed?
A. Yes.
Q. And where are you currently employed?
A. The A----------- -- --- --- -- --- ---- -- --. Q. And what is your position there?
A. I am the technology resource manager.
Q. And how long have you worked at ---------? A. It will be 4 years on September 3rd.
Q. And where did you work before ---------?A. I had my own business. I worked for Intercontinental Data Management.
Q. Did you own that business?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And how many employees did you have?
A. Myself and Caryl Leventhal up until, I guess, 1991.
Then, it was me.(212) 267-6868
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M. LEVENTHAL
1 Q. Did you continue in the business on your
2 own after 1991?
3 A. Oh, yes.
4 Q. Until when?
5 A. Until June of -- well, until Caryl got
6 sick. June of 1996, I believe, when I stayed
7 with her.
8 Q. And what happened to the business in June
9 of 1996?
10 A. Well, it is a partnership that went
11 dormant.
12 Q. And what was the purpose of the business?
13 A. It originally started out as an executive
14 recruitment firm for Programmers Assistant
15 Analysts ["Systems Analysts"]. It was more into one of technology
16 training, development of course, material
17 curriculum design, training and then, went into
18 computer consulting, hardware, software
19 evaluation, recommending to various companies
20 how they could meet their technology need or
21 efficiency as well as meeting their
22 requirements with minimum cost.
23 Q. And you referred to June of 1996 when you
24 said that Caryl got sick. Did you stop working
25 in order to care for her at that time?
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M. LEVENTHAL6
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And for what period of time did you stop
3 working to care for her?
4 A. Until September 3rd. Although I might
5 add that I knew at that point that I would have
6 to get what might be called a nine to five job
7 because even now I do the cooking and the
8 cleaning and whatever is necessary to be done
9 after I come home from work.
10 Q. When in the year 2000 did you start your
11 job at the ----- ----? When did you start your
12 job at the ----- -------?
13 A. Oh, September 3, 1996.
14 Q. Thank you. Were you employed before
15 Intercontinental Data Management?
16 A. We are going back into the 1970s because
17 Intercontinental was formed as a partnership in
18 1980 or 1981.
19 Q. So was your full-time employment from
20 1980 or 1981 until 1996 with Intercontinental?
21 A. Sure. I may have done little things here
22 and there. It was insignificant.
23 Q. Are you a member of the military?
24 A. Yes, I am, sir.
25 Q. How long have you been a member of theVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 7
M. LEVENTHAL
1 military?
2 A. For 10 years now.
3 Q. And what is your current status in the
4 military?
5 A. It is a state command. I hold the rank
6 of lieutenant colonel. I am stationed at the
7 army [S/B Armory] on Park Avenue and 63rd Street. That is
8 the Seventh Regiment Armory.
9 Q. Have you ever received any recognition or
10 other awards from the military?
11 A. Many. Many.
12 Q. What are they?
13 A. All right. I was decorated for bravery
14 in April. The decoration that I received was
15 in May of 1998 for something that happened in
16 March of 1998. I was decorated for bravery for
17 saving the life of somebody at a homicide scene
18 while in uniform.
19 Q. How did you save that person's life?
20 A. Well, myself -- it was a Sunday, and we
21 normally have our monthly drill in one of our
22 armories. In this case, several of us were
23 invited and received approval to be able to
24 attend a cell trailer that our command sergeant
25 major was holding. It was to celebrate 4 years [S/B 40]VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 8
M.LEVENTHAL
1 in the military. It was in a church in
2 Harlem. It was an entering celebration. After
3 that, we celebrated. He gave, and I considered
4 myself to be honored, he gave myself and a few
5 other people also little gifts or tokens of
6 appreciation for what we had done working with
7 him all the years. In fact, I learned more
8 from him than he had ever learned from me.
9 Q. How did you save this person's life?
10 A. I want to provide the background In any
11 event, we were riding home from Harlem, myself,
12 two of my sergeants and we were on the
13 Brooklyn-Queens Expressway. It was a Sunday,
14 and everybody was speeding fast. All of a
15 sudden, we see in the middle of the highway and
16 not on the side of the highway, in the middle
17 of the highway, two bodies lying there.
18 Immediately, we pulled up, we ran out, one of
19 my sergeants, a very brave man, went to the top
20 of a hill on the highway and risked his life
21 standing in the middle of oncoming traffic to
22 ward off the cars. My other sergeant that was
23 an EMS man got his EMS material. He and I
24 walked over to the first person who was
25 obviously dead, very badly mangled. We then
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1 went over to the second person, and I had
2 noticed that there were some people on the
3 side. I went to the people on the side to find
4 out if EMS was called while my man started
5 right in the middle of the highway with cars
6 almost running him over and checking the person
7 out. We made sure an ambulance was called. A
8 police car pulled up, but the policeman cowered
9 inside of his car right by the side of the
10 read [S/B "road"]. He wouldn't come into the oncoming
11 traffic. I ran over to the EMS man. While the
12 EMS man was checking him for broken bones in
13 the middle of the highway, I shielded him with
14 my body kneeling in a pool of blood and holding
15 his bleeding head, got whatever information I
16 could from him, and for fifteen minutes until
17 the fire department and EMS came, we shielded
18 him, and the EMS came, took him away, didn't
19 have to check him out because he was already
20 prepped, and that was primarily -- he lived.
21 He survived. Had anything happened to him, I
22 probably would have been court-martialed for
23 doing something without orders. You don't
24 think about this when someone's life is at
25 stake. I received a medal in 1995 [S/B 1996] during theVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400
10 M. LEVENTHAL
1 storms [This was during the storms and floods of
Winter 1996. Michael Leventhal was on active duty,
working in the Emergency Operations Center at
Camp Smith NY, ensuring integrity of the technology
needed in the NY State rescue effort].
2 Q. For now, I want you to list the various
3 decorations.
4 A. Military commendation medal for work
5 during the Desert Storm, I guess, in 1991. I
6 got the state merit [Meritorious] service metal. There are a
7 lot of others. I forget.
8 Q. Would you briefly state for me your
9 educational background?
10 A. I have a bachelors degree from Hunter
11 College that I earned going at night and worked
12 my way through.
13 Q. And what was your major at Hunter
14 College?
15 A. My major was economics, my minor was
16 psychology or maybe it was reversed. I don't
17 remember after all of these years.
18 Q. Are you currently married to Caryl
19 Leventhal, the plaintiff in this case?
20 A. Lovingly so.
21 Q. And how long have you been married to
22 Mrs. Leventhal?
23 A. We were married on Valentine's Day,
24 February 14th. I believe it was in 1982, but
25 it seems like six months. I feel like I am
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1 still on my honeymoon. 2 Q. And were you married before you were 3 married to Mrs. Leventhal? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. When did that marriage come to an end? 6 A. In 1979 or 1980. It was 1980, I think. 7 Q. What was your first wife's name? 8 A. Patricia. 9 Q. And her family name? 10 A. Cody. 11 Q. And how did that marriage come to an end? 12 A. In fact, I married her because she became 13 pregnant. I wanted to do the right thing. We 14 stayed together for 2 and a half years in 15 marriage, and when we felt David was old 16 enough, which was 2 and a half years, we 17 separated. We had joint custody, though, from 18 the time that he was about 4 and a half or 5 19 years. He stayed with me 90 percent of the 20 time. 21 Q. Your son's name is David? 22 A . Yes. 23 Q. And is that your only -- is he your only 24 child? 25 A. Sir, I have a previous child from a much,
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M. LEVENTHAL
1 much earlier marriage. His name is Marc
2 M-A-R-C. We were married when we were very
3 young. He was autistic. The pressure of
4 autism on the family just broke it up.
5 Q. Are you still in contact with Marc?
6 A. I haven't been for a few years. He is an
7 adult now. I think he is older than you. It
8 happened a long time ago. For many years, I
9 was very actively involved. He is in an
10 institution now. I was very actively involved
11 in taking care of him and providing support and
12 what have you.
13 Q. Are you in contact with David?
14 A. I haven't been in contact with David for
15 a few years. In his late teens, he dropped out
16 of school and disappeared. About six months
17 after, he started living with his biological
18 mother.
19 Q. And does he currently live with his
20 biological mother?
21 A. No. No. He dropped out of school and
22 left. I know he is okay because I lived where
23 I do for many years since before he was born.
24 I know his friends. His friends say that he
25 asks about Caryl and me. To be perfectly
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1 straight with you, one reason why I haven't
2 followed over the past few years is because I
3 felt given what was going on with the United
4 States Department of Justice and INS and having
5 our lives threatened, he would be better
6 staying out of a very ugly situation.
7 Q. Did David ever live with you and Caryl
8 for any period of time?
9 A. Most of the time.
10 Q. During what-years did he live with you
11 and Caryl?
12 A. He lived half the time with Caryl and
13 myself from the time he was -- I may be getting
14 chronologically off a little a year or two -
15 up until he was about -- from two and a half to
16 five. The time was split fifty percent between
17 my former wife and myself and that ended when I
18 saw him with a big bruise on his head. She had
19 smashed has head against the wall a few times.
20 They found out about it at the school, and Pat
21 just said she is not a maternal person. She
22 said "well, you take him" which was fine with
23 me. That was great. I raised him from the
24 time he was 5 or 6 until 17 and a half. Oh,
25 no. No. Shortly after he reached puberty of
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1 13 or 14, my former wife had remarried,
2 and they had bought a brownstone. We all lived in
3 the same neighborhood. We were going through
4 that stage of David you have to do your
5 homework, you are not going out until your
6 homework is done. 7 Pat who tended to view him more as a
8 possession and a symbol of victory, promised
9 him his own room, $25 a week, and he could do
10 anything that he wants. Well, one thing leads
11 to another. He left and dropped out of
12 school. To a kid, that was a nifty
13 arrangement. 14 Q. And you testified that you haven't seen
15 or rather that David did not come and visit you
16 because you are in a dangerous situation? 17 A. Yes. Not until this is over with. 18 Q. When was the last time that you spoke
19 with David over telephone?
20 A. Probably 18 years old. This was a few
21 years ago. I hear what is going on from his
22 friends. [May I] add something, sir? 23 Certainly. If it is in response to the
24 question.
25 A. Yes. It is responsive of why David is
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1 not approached although he will be after this
2 is over whenever it ends. Since 1998, since
3 our death threat of April 26th -- may I
4 finish?
5 Q. That is what I wanted to ask you.
6 For the sake of the record, why is it
7 that you feel that you are now in a dangerous
8 situation?
9 A. The advent ["Admin"] process beginning in September
10 of 1996, the INS EEO process was very ugly. It
11 was obvious that they wanted to kill this
12 case. I could provide all of the documentation
13 and instances of how they refused to accept any
14 of the basis of 2 years of fighting because
15 they felt that anti-white racism leveled
16 against the people who were black or affiliated
17 with the black community through marriage was
18 something that was too hot to handle, if you
19 will. After the affidavits in November of 1997
20 or when they began, we started to get crank
21 phone calls. This went on for months. Very
22 similar to the fact and I am not accusing
23 anything to the fact that when Brenda Grant
24 began her deposition one day before, we
25 received seventeen hang-ups. We received
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M.LEVENTHAL
1 hang-ups for a few days after that. It just
2 stopped. Then again,it could have been
3 telemarketers. I don't know. In any event,
4 after the months of crank calls, we got a death
5 threat on April 26th at 1:30 in the morning.
6 That went something o the effect -
7 Q. Of what year?
8 A. 1998. That we something to the effect
9 of -- we have it on tape --"You don't know when
10 to give up you fuckin' Jew.- - You and your loony
11 wife, we are going to get you Nazi style."
12 Then, they started to go into the whole thing
13 of Prozac, you are going to get the full 800
14 milligrams, which I found out is the probable
15 beginning of a fatal dose. I would like to add
16 unstoppingly so, if I might, sir, that I sent a
17 certified letter to Larry Zief, the deputy
18 regional counsel for the Immigration and
19 Naturalization Service telling him about this.
20 Larry Zief called me up and in a very
21 mechanical way said, "The US Department of
22 Justice doesn't sanction this type of
23 behavior." My response to Mr. Zief was,"Larry,
24 I know what these people are thinking, middle
25 age, urban, Jewish, punkie, but you better get
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1 on the horn to 26 Federal Plaza and stop them
2 from upsetting my wife because if they go any
3 further and get within legal range, I am going
4 to shoot them." He did not respond, but I can
5 tell you within a few days, everything stopped.| Note: As part of the gang of USDOJ enablers of the terrorism that murders 3,000 innocent Americans on September 11th 2001, Laurence M. Zieff is subsequently made Assistant Regional Counsel for the new Department (Agency) of Homeland Security You can find him at 70 Kimball Avenue, Room 103 South Burlington, Vermont |
6 Q. The crank calls that you received and
7 leaving aside the death threat phone call, did
8 anyone speak during those crank calls or were
9 they hang-ups?
10 A. We always keep -- we are private people.
11 We have few friends, we have two telephones
12 that are unlisted, we are very wrapped up with
13 each other. We always have been, and we also
14 have answering machines on. There were calls
15 and hang-ups. When Caryl would pick up the
16 telephone, there would be either a hang-up or
17 guttural grunting.
18 Q. So aside from hang-ups or guttural
19 grunting, did anyone ever say anything that
20 either you or Mrs. Leventhal can make out?
21 A. They never called up and said that they
22 are from the Department of Justice.
23 Q. I understand that you -- you referred to
24 the death threat that there was actually
25 something said. On any of the other calls, wasVERITEXT
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M. LEVENTHAL
1 there anything said?
2 A. No.
3 Q. And the death threat phone call, the
4 April 26, 1998, who do you suspect made that
5 phone call?
6 A. I think and it is purely speculation,
7 that it was one of the people called as
8 witnesses that have been deposed by Caryl
9 Leventhal that got one of their jerky friends
10 to call up-and say, let's scare them, let's
11 scare the Jews. Let's get them to stop this.
12 I know how to do it. I will take care of it.
13 Q. When you referred to the people -
14 A. If I may interrupt. What bothers me more
15 than anything else is because I am a gun owner,
16 what bothers me more than anything else is that
17 the United States Department of Justice through
18 INS didn't give a damn. For 2 and a half
19 years, nobody cared because their attitude I am
20 convinced was if this will get them to drop
21 this case, good.
22 Q. Earlier, you testified that you suspect
23 that people who were deposed as witnesses by
24 Mrs. Leventhal may have involved their friends
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M.LEVENTHAL
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. At the time leading up to April 26, 1998,
3 who had Mrs. Leventhal deposed as witnesses?
4 A. No. What I mean is the people that were
5 claimed that were mentioned in Caryl's EEO
6 complaint. That was Brenda Grant and Agatha
7 Stewart and, of course, you had the people
8 guilty of omission, Gwen McPherson and Edward
9 McElroy. Could I be sued if I say something in
10 a deposition?-. The two prime witnesses that
11 were deposed by Caryl's attorney I think was a
12 friend of one of them.
13 Q. When you say "the two prime witnesses,"
14 you are referring to Brenda Grant and Agatha
15 Stewart?
16 A. That said.
17 Q. Is that your testimony, do you suspect it
18 was either one of those two women or one of
19 their friends or acquaintances?
20 A. I think it was one of their friends or
21 acquaintances.
22 Q. Was it a man or a woman whose voice you
23 heard?
24 A. A man with a Bensonhurst, Brooklyn
25 accent. Not that I am pointing fingers at
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20M. LEVENTHAL
1 anybody certainly not from Bensonhurst. It is
2 a nice place.
3 Q. At the previous deposition, I ask to be
4 provided with a copy of the tape. So I will
5 make that request again on the record.
6 Do you still have this answering machine
7 tape?
8 A. Locked in a safe.
9 Q. I ask that a recording be made for me and
10 provided.
11 A. May I ask you a question? Is it two-way
12 or just one question?
13 Q. Go ahead and ask the question.
14 A. Thank you.
15 Q. I may not answer your question.
16 A. I understand that. I understand that.
17 When Caryl told me that you wanted the
18 tape, my response was, "After 2 and a half
19 years they didn't care about your safety. Now,
20 they only care to try to see if they could keep
21 it from testimony at the trial." Is that really
22 what this is for, just to keep it from
23 testimony at the trial or is this truly a
24 search for the truth?
25 Mr. Leventhal, I won't answer the
21M. LEVENTHAL
1 question.
2 A. Thank you, sir.
3 Q. You have many venues for publicizing your
4 case and editorializing about it.
5 A. Thank you, sir.
6 Q. You referred to documentation relating to
7 the EEO process.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Has all of that documentation -- have
10 copies of all of that documentation that is in
11 your possession, custody or control, been
12 provided in the course of this litigation?
13 A. I believe so. The only things I don't
14 believe I sent you were some of the letters
15 from Larry Zief or from the absolutely
16 admirable judge at US EEO, William McCauley. I
17 thought that you had that.
18 Q. I ask that any documents that you do have
19 in your possession that relate in any way to
20 this lawsuit in the EEO process be provided.
21 A. All right, sir.
22 Q. When was it that Mrs. Leventhal was first
23 diagnosed with multiple sclerosis?
24 A. I believe it was January of 1992.
25 Q. You sound unsure of the month?VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 22
M. LEVENTHAT .
1 A. I believe she came to me and she said, "I 2 am blind in one eye and it hurts like hell." 3 She still continues going to work. It was, I 4 believe, a new job. She would work holding one 5 eye. We went to an eye doctor and then to a 6 neurologist who told her that it would either 7 be Lyme disease or a sign of multiple 8 sclerosis, and Caryl, not being a doctor, said 9 that I hope it not be Lyme disease because I 10 know what multiple sclerosis was about. She 11 got an MRI, and it was multiple sclerosis. 12 Q. And who was the neurologist who first
13 diagnosed her with multiple sclerosis? 14 A. A Dr. Untericht. 15 Q . Aside from the visit where 16 Dr. Untericht diagnosed Mrs. Leventhal with MS, 17 do you know whether Mrs. Leventhal continued to 18 see Dr. Untericht for treatment? 19 A. We -- there is no treatment. There is no 20 treatment and no cure. I have been following 21 this for years. Whatever quote treatment is 22 done for people that are in desperate straits, 23 it usually doesn't work, and they have terrible 24 side effects. If you want, I could run off a 25 litany of medications and refer you to the
23
1 neurologist and the magazines of the American 2 Neurological Association. 3 Q. Perhaps, I mis-spoke (sic). Did 4 Mrs. Leventhal continue to see Dr. Untericht 5 with respect to her multiple sclerosis? 6 A. No. He wanted to see her. I am a very 7 direct person as I think that you may have 8 gathered. I asked Dr. Untericht and I said, 9 "Doctor, you are bringing her here, you are 10 taking your optical photos, and you are writing 11 things up for any book that you may have come 12 up with for multiple sclerosis. There is no 13 treatment or cure, is there?" He said no. I 14 said, "We will be seeing you." I did a lot 15 of reading, and I came up with a diet, a 16 nutritional diet, food preparation, and within 17 a relatively short period of months, she came 18 out of it. She has been on the diet ever 19 since. Except with the two exacerbations of MS 20 at INS, she has never had an exacerbation. 21 Q. Do you know how many visits she had with 22 Dr. Untericht? 23 Three or four. 24 And aside from Dr. Untericht, did you see 25 any other doctors in connection with her
24
M.LEVENTHAL
1 multiple sclerosis?
2 A. Well, a Dr. Poon who became her family
3 doctor. Again, I may be a year off or
4 something like that. My apologies for that.
5 My apologies for that. It was in 1993 or 1992.
6 Q. Mr. Leventhal, we will have a paper
7 record. Mr. Leventhal, you said 1993. Are you
8 not sure?
9 A. Caryl's deposition gave the proper dates
10 for everything.
11 Q. I am not relying on you for the dates.
12 A. Please don't. Dr. Poon was recommended
13 as a very good empathic doctor from the person
14 that was then Caryl's gynecologist because
15 Caryl was going in, I believe, at that time for
16 surgery on fibroid tumors unrelated to multiple
17 sclerosis. We met Dr. Poon, and he has been
18 more or less overseeing things. Neither Caryl
19 or I are what you call, and Dr. Poon knows
20 this, doctor people in quotes. We don't run to
21 doctors all the time just like we don't run to
22 lawyers all the time. He is just very good.
23 He is caring and he has a MD in anatomy. He is
24 a former researcher always interested in
25 neurology and what have you and provides
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25M. LEVENTHAL
1 really, you know, good help and advice,
2 although, he like I are not believers in
3 stuffing people with chemistry unless they need
4 it. There is another doctor, too.
5 Q. Aside from Dr. Untericht and
6 Dr. Poon, who else has Mrs. Leventhal visited
7 in connection with her multiple sclerosis?
8 A. In 1996 or probably late August of 1996
9 and after she was terminated from INS while
10 home critically i11 without warning-, Dr. Poon
11 said to have a neurologist check her out. I
12 asked why. He said -- I want to think this
13 out. It was really very funny. He said "I
14 don't have a degree in neurology." I said, "Do
15 you think that he will find something?" He
16 said, "No. At least that you will have a
17 neurologist checking her out." She was very
18 depressed.
19 Q. In August of 1996?
20 A. Give or take a month. We went to a
21 doctor -- gee, I forgot his name. He is in
22 Caryl's deposition. We went there, and he did
23 the standard neurologist thing, lift up this
24 hand and lift up that hand. As his response
25 was, "Well, you have got multiple sclerosis." I
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271VI. LEVENTHAL
1 A. No.
2 Q. You testified that this diet that you
3 helped to devise you believe that has helped to
4 alleviate Mrs. Leventhal's multiple sclerosis.
5 How did you come up with this diet?
6 A. I did a lot of research on MS, and about
7 9 years ago, I came up with a view that is now
8 currently accepted although it was not opted
9 then that is an autoimmune disease where the
10 body's, immunilogical system turns upon itself,
11 and I designed a diet. It was nothing radical
12 or scary food preparation. I happen to be a
13 good cook, vitamins. Again, nothing they can't
14 get in a vitamin store to more or less help and
15 maintain that balanced level. As a matter of
16 fact, I wrote a book about it and I sent it to
17 a couple of publishers but you need a doctor to
18 sign off on it and they will publish it. My
19 response was to forget it.
20 Q. Have you ever published any books?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. What you have published?
23 A. Technology books have been published by
24 Macmillan Publishers and Prentice Hall and
25 how-to books. I began the whole concept of
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28M. LEVENTHAL
1 non-complicated how-to books.
2 Q. What are the titles of the books?
3 A. MS DOS Quick Start, The Second Edition.
4 I did work on several other books for Prentice
5 Hall. They basically took that work, gave it
6 to an in-house person to save money. I
7 complained. On my own, I never contacted a
8 lawyer, and I spoke to their corporate counsel.
9 Q. Just the titles.
10 A. There was MS DOS 5. I haven't written
11 anything since probably 1993.
12 Q. In 1992 when Mrs. Leventhal was first
13 diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, did she
14 exhibit any symptoms other than the blindness
15 that you referred to?
16 A. Yes, she did.
17 Q . What were they?
18 A. Unsteadiness in walking, numbness in the
19 limbs, the standard routine for MS.
20 Q. Any other symptoms that you can recall?
21 A. I had it pegged as MS. I am sure that
22 there are others.
23 Q. Are there any others that you can
24 remember?
25 A. Double vision, general muscular weakness,
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29M.LEVENTHAL
1 headaches that subsequently went away with the 2 diet and didn't come back until 1995 with the
3 next exacerbation several years later at INS.
4 Q. When did Mrs. Leventhal first begin on
5 this diet that you prepared for her?
6 A. Shortly after Dr. Untericht. It was
7 within a week or two after we saw
8 Dr. Untericht.
9 Q. From the period when Mrs. Leventhal began
10 on this diets until but not including the
11 exacerbation in June of 1996, did you notice
12 any changes in her symptoms of multiple
13 sclerosis?
14 A. She had no symptoms with multiple
15 sclerosis.
16 Q. So from 1992 to June of 1996 before the
17 alleged exacerbation?
18 A. Well, 1996.
19 Q. Before, she did not exhibit any symptoms
20 of multiple sclerosis whatever?
21 A. She stayed away from heavy physical
22 activity which I stressed. She performed the
23 full-time job, white collar job, with no
24 physical activity and got fine reviews, and she
25 was very happy.VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 30
M.LEVENTHAL
1 Q. You said that you stressed no heavy
2 physical activity. Was it your understanding
3 that physical activity was not good for her MS?
4 A. Well, the whole concept is to maintain a
5 healthy balanced body so the autoimmune system
6 was placated, if you will. Physical activity,
7 and I am speculating now, of course, because I
8 am not a neurologist either, I am speculating
9 that number one that physical activity causes
10 or can cause an increase of adrenaline,
11 possibly hormonal changes -
12 Q. I don't mean to interrupt you. Just to
13 be clear, I am not questioning you as any kind
14 of medical expert or a lay expert on multiple
15 sclerosis. I would like you to restrict
16 yourself as to the understanding at the time
17 and the question is based on your understanding
18 at the time from 1992 to 1995. Was it your
19 understanding that Mrs. Leventhal ought to
20 refrain from physical activity?
21 A. Not from all physical activity. It was
22 from things like heavy lifting, strenuous
23 physical activity that might tax her.
24 Q. In your understanding at the time, where
25 was the line between optimal physical activity
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31M. LEVENTHAL
1 and strenuous -
2 A. Well, you don't have to be a chicken to
3 know a bad egg. She walks around, she was
4 doing some light shopping, I would help her
5 with the shopping, walking was always
6 considered good. Just what is strenuous? It
7 is being used as a warehouse man. Strenuous is
8 working at a non-white collar job with
9 functions that require physical activity.
10 Caryl knew--this. She'd always stay- away. from
11 that sort of thing.
12 Q. Based on your observations, did Mrs.
13 Leventhal's condition remain constant from
14 approximately the period when she went on this
15 diet until June of 1995 before the
16 exacerbation?
17 A. -Yes. I watch her like a hawk. I love
18 her.
19 Q. When in 1995 did Mrs. Leventhal first
20 exhibit symptoms of what has been described as
21 the exacerbation of her multiple sclerosis?
22 A. Late June.
23 Q. And what symptoms did she exhibit in late
24 June o f 1995 ?
25 A. On June 22nd, 1995 because she had givenVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 32
M. LEVENTHAL
1 notice to what was then her place of employment
2 prior to INS -
3 Q. Mr. Leventhal -
4 A. I want to set a chronology.
5 Q. I will give you an opportunity. The
6 question is, and I am asking you to limit
7 yourself to your observation, what symptoms did
8 you observe in late June of 1995?
9 A. She went to the hospital while at Reis
10 Reports on June 22nd which is what I was trying
11 to get at. They told her we are letting you go
12 because you gave notice, and we kept you on for
13 a few weeks longer even though you gave notice,
14 and they said you are out because we found a
15 replacement for you. She went to the hospital,
16 St. Clare's Hospital.
17 Q. I understand that she went to the
18 hospital -
19 A. She was taken there in an ambulance.
20 Q. What symptoms did she exhibit?
21 A. She was hyperventilating, she turned
22 pale, she passed out, everybody was
23 frightened. It was a trauma.
24 Q. And how long did she stay in the
25 hospital?VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 33
M. LEVENTHAL
1 A. One day. Shortly after that, the
2 symptoms began, but she was under stress since
3 the position at INS was unlawfully rescinded in
4 late May of 1995.
5 MR. FISHER: For the record, I don't
6 have any documents from
7 St. Clare's Hospital.
8 A. I have them. I have taken them out this
9 weekend. I can send it to you.
10 Q. Mr. Leventhal, I ask that all-exchanges
11 of documents and so on occur through your
12 lawyer. I ask that the documents that you do
13 have, provide it to your lawyer to be provided
14 to me. I would also ask that authorizations be
15 provided so I can ensure that I have a complete
16 set of the hospital records of Mrs. Leventhal's
17 stay there in 1995.
18 A. Sure.
19 Q. Once Mrs. Leventhal was discharged from
20 St. Clare's Hospital and if you restrict now
21 from that time until she began work at INS,
22 what symptoms did she continue to display?
23 A. General deterioration, standard symptoms,
24 very bad headaches, muscle weakness, dizziness,
25 standard MS symptoms.
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34M.LEVENTHAL
1 Q. And before Mrs. Leventhal began her
2 employment with INS in October of 1995, did
3 those symptoms improve
4 A. She was coming out of it in October.
5 That is why she delayed going on board to INS.
6 She delayed it by a few weeks so she could
7 begin her new job on a positive note.
8 Q. When she started the new job, did she
9 have any continuing symptoms of that
10 exacerbation-in June of 1995?
11 A. Not to any extent. The exacerbation in
12 1995 was nowhere near as bad as the one in
13 1996 .
14 Q. Is Dr. Poon your treating physician as
15 well?
16 A. Well, you could put treating in quotes.
17 Again, there is no treatment. For me?
18 Q. Yes.
19 A. Oh, sure, sure. Sure.
20 Q. Did you come to use Dr. Poon after Mrs.
21 Leventhal found him?
22 A. Oh, definitely. I just -- I trust him
23 which is not easy for me as far as doctors are
24 concerned. I am a very independent person.
25 MR. FISHER: I ask the court reporterVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 35
M. LEVENTHAL
1 to make as Defendant's Exhibit P
2 a report signed by Dr. Poon.
3 [Whereupon, a report was hereby marked
4 as Defendant's Exhibit P for
5 identification, as of this date,
6 by the reporter.]
7 Q. Mr. Leventhal, please look at what has
8 been marked as Defendant's Exhibit P. Let me
9 know whether or not you recognize this.
10 A. I sure do, sir.
11 Q. And who prepared this document?
12 A. When you say "prepared," what do you -
13 Q. Let me try to break it down. Who typed
14 the document?
15 A. I typed the document after speaking with
16 Dr. Poon, and him telling me what the situation
17 was as far as his evaluation of Caryl. Then, I
18 brought it to him. I said, "Is this what you
19 wanted?" He looked and he says something to the
20 effect of, "Yes. You are even understating
21 it." I said that I tried to, you know, not to
22 put you in a position. After a few weeks of
23 calling him up and reminding him because
24 doctors are a little absentminded, I sat down
25 with him because I had to go back for aVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 36
M.LEVENTHAL
1 prescription or something. He said this is
2 very good. This is exactly, you know, -- I
3 have understated it and he filled it out and
4 signed it.
5 Q. Dr. Poon's handwriting accounts for all
6 the handwriting on the document?
7 A. Well, everything else is typing.
8 Q. Right. Is the handwriting
9 Dr. Poon's?
10 A. Definitely. He studied it very carefully
11 before he signed it. I could tell you that.
12 Q. I will have occasion to take
13 Dr. Poon's deposition.
14 A. Okay. Plus, the reason why I typed it
15 out is because Michael Bressler, Caryl's
16 lawyer, said that there is a format for filling
17 it out. I used the legal format for it. That
18 is why I was the one that did it. I forgot the
19 name of it. What is it? Report of condition
20 and treatment. There has got to be some legal
21 mumbo-jumbo for this type of thing. It is
22 supposed to be set up in a particular way which
23 is why I have done it.
24 Q. Following that format, you prepared this
25 format for Dr. Poon's signature?VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 37
M. LEVENTHAL
1 A. Subject to him telling me what he felt
2 should be in it.
3 Q. After Mrs. Leventhal began work at INS in
4 October of 1995, when was her next exacerbation
5 of multiple sclerosis?
6 A. June of 1996.
7 Q. And again, I will ask you to restrict
8 yourself as to what you observed.
9 During this exacerbation of her multiple
10 sclerosis, what did you observe-in terms of her
11 symptoms?
12 A. It started on June 10th. Actually, it
13 started on June 9th and 8th. That was a
14 weekend. I will never forget it. Really
15 relative -- I am not a doctor. I am being
16 subjective here.
17 Q. I am asking you because you are not a
18 doctor to limit yourself as to what it is that
19 you observed of her symptoms.
20 A. Unsteadiness, weakness to the point where
21 she could not stand up without rocking or
22 grabbing something, very bad headaches, severe
23 headaches which graduated inside a month or two
24 to really mental confusion. It sort of like -
25 I have been at this for 10 years. I have seen
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38M. LEVENTHAL
1 Caryl. I know multiple sclerosis. It is like 2 you see things going downhill in an obvious 3 way, and, you know, it is just going to get far 4 worse if it ever gets better if it ever does. 5 It was really going down that hill very fast. 6 I have never seen it like that before. 7 Q. Did all of these symptoms come on all at 8 once or did it come up in some particular 9 order? 10 A. It never comes on at once You see the 11 beginnings of things. This just happened 12 really fast. 13 Q. What were the first symptoms to display
14 themselves as you remember it? 15 A. The ones that I have mentioned. 16 Q. When did you first see them? 17 A. The weekend of the eighth and ninth of 18 June, 1996. I know she was very upset for 19 months before that for whatever that is worth 20 which really worried the heck out of me. When 21 that happens, the balance is knocked off. You 22 know she could be heading for this. She was 23 very upset on June -- I am trying to help. On 24 June 7th when she got her final review. She 25 came home and she was unbelievably agitated.
VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 39
M. LEVENTHAL
1 Q. On June 7, 1996 when Mrs. Leventhal
2 returned home from work, did you have
3 discussions with her about what had transpired
4 at work that day?
5 A. Oh, yeah.
6 Q. What did she tell you?
7 A. She was very upset. She had felt for the
8 past couple of months although I had felt for
9 months before that she was being set up. Caryl
10 is optimistic.- They sat her down. She said
11 Agatha Stewart and Brenda Grant gave her her
12 intermediate review. She never received a
13 final review. They noted on it that
14 essentially she had done everything wrong.
15 Agatha Stewart smiled and said something and I
16 believe Brenda Grant said what she had told her
17 many times that if you leave now, I will give
18 you a good reference. Caryl's response was, "I
19 have multiple sclerosis. You know that. I
20 never let multiple sclerosis beat me, and I
21 won't let you beat me with this." I am
22 paraphrasing. It is really close.
23 Q. When Mrs. Leventhal returned home from
24 work that day, what else did she tell you that
25 happened at work on June 7, 1996?VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 40
KLEVENTHAL
1 A. She told me, "They hate me. I tried to
2 work things out. For months, I tried to work
3 things out. I did it the private sector way.
4 I thought they would be reasonable. I thought
5 that doing a good job in a department was more
6 important than their personal feelings about
7 me, but they don't really care, and they don't
8 care about their jobs, and they don't care
9 about me. It is not private industry. It is
10 how these people are different with their
11 attitudes. They place their own petty crap in
12 front of the mission.
13 Q. What you just told me, this is based on
14 your recollection of what Mrs. Leventhal told
15 you?
16 A. Certain things you don't forgot.
17 Q. On June 7, 1996?
18 A. Yes. Certain things you don't forget.
19 Caryl speaks flatter. That is what she had
20 gotten across. They have set me up and I tried
21 everything to be reasonable to work with them.
22 Q. And what did you tell her after she told
23 you this?
24 A. I was really scared because when I saw
25 her like that, I haven't seen her upset like
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41M. LEVENTHAL
1 that -- I have never seen her upset like that.
2 Immediately, I thought to myself "Oh, gee".
3 You think MS. MS doesn't pop up in a few
4 days. You know things have been going on for
5 months. It is a buildup until it reaches the
6 wrong term. It is a critical mass, and you
7 really see what is going on. I was really
8 scared because I tried calming her down because
9 I just felt what could be coming. On the
10 weekend, she became progressively sicker.
11 MS. AYERS: Answer his question. What
12 did you tell her?
13 A. I just tried to keep her calm. My
14 apologies. This is an emotional time that you
15 are dragging me back into. I understand that
16 you have to. It is painful.
17 Q. From June of 1996 until today, has Mrs.
18 Leventhal ever been hospitalized?
19 A . No.
20 Q. So this June of 1996 exacerbation of her
21 MS did not require hospitalization?
22 A. Well, MS doesn't -- hospitals can't do
23 anything with MS. Sometimes, they just keep
24 them in there because they can't b e taken care
25 of at home. I devoted myself to her. She is
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42M.LEVENTHAL
1 my life. She is what it is all about.
2 Q. Does Mrs. Leventhal currently collect
3 Social Security administration disability
4 benefits?
5 A. Yes, sir, she did.
6 Q. When did you begin collecting those
7 benefits?
8 A. I am thinking out loud. She applied -
9 we applied -
10 Q. Mr. Leventhal, I don't think you should
11 think out loud. Consider what your answer is
12 to the question and provide the answer, if you
13 know it.
14 A. She got her first check give or take a
15 couple of months. A year after she applied,
16 and I believe she applied in September of 1996.
17 Q. Did you assist her in applying?
18 A. She couldn't do it on her own. She was
19 by that point completely incapable of
20 functioning on a regular level.
21 Q. Did her application require any medical
22 exams?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And who examined her in connection with
25 her application for SSI benefits?
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43M. LEVENTHAL
1 A. The names of the people, I don't know.
2 When you contact Social Security, you will find
3 out. It was a psychologist and a doctor.
4 Q. Were there any hearings or did
5 Mrs. Leventhal have to appear before any SSA
6 official in connection with the determination
7 that she was eligible for disability benefits
8 the first time that she applied?
9 A. She was rejected which is the standard.
10 I filled out all of the paperwork. She was
11 totally incapable of being able to function.
12 That had affected her short-term memory
13 skills. She was really in a bad way. I did
14 all of the writing. They re-investigated. I
15 don't know the exact word. She was checked out
16 again by the psychologist, by the doctor, and
17 they just approved it. She was worse then. It
18 was a real decline for a long time.
19 Q. Given Mrs. Leventhal's current condition,
20 is she now capable of employment?
21 A. No.
22 Q. And how long has she not been capable of
23 employment?
24 A. Since her exacerbation, I guess, in 1996.
25 Q. Do you or Mrs. Leventhal have in yourVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 44
M. LEVENTHAL
1 possession any documents that relate to the
2 application for Social Security benefits
3 including the determination, the initial
4 determination, that she was not eligible and
5 the subsequent determination that she was
6 eligible?
7 A. I can look. Sure. Once she was made
8 eligible, I made her throw out all of this
9 stuff. My hard drive was too big. I may have
10 deleted some things. I will turn it over.
11 Q. To be clear, don't restrict yourself to
12 what is on the hard drive, but correspondence
13 that you may have received from the SSA.
14 A. Yes. I will have to check. Can I have a
15 few days for that?
16 Q. Yes.
17 MR. FISHER: Let's take a short break
18 now.
19 Read that back, please.
20 [Whereupon, the requested portion of
21 the record was hereby read by
22 the reporter.]23 Q. Mr. Leventhal, are you aware of the 24 circumstances of Mrs. Leventhal's termination 25 from Reis Reports?
VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 KLEVENTHAL
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And how did you become aware of those
3 circumstances?
4 A. Through what Caryl told me, but also from
5 June 10th, on. I was very involved including
6 writing the letters and speaking to Brenda
7 Grant and Agatha Stewart as well as listening
8 in on the conversations Caryl had with Brenda
9 Grant and Agatha Stewart.
10 Q. My question related to
11 Mrs. Leventhal's termination from Reis
12 Reports.
13 A. I am sorry.
14 Q. Are you aware of the circumstances of
15 Mrs. Leventhal's termination from Reis Reports?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. How are you aware of those circumstances?
18 A. Well, I know -- I don't want to go into
19 the whole story. I know that you don't want me
20 to either. We live together. We are close
21 people. I know the people at Reis Reports. We
22 have gone to parties with them, company
23 parties. Most of them were nice.
24 Q. You discussed the circumstances of Mrs.
25 Leventhal's termination with Mrs. Leventhal, is
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46M. LEVENTHAL
1 that right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did you discuss it with anyone else aside
4 from Mrs. Leventhal?
5 A. From Reis Reports?
6 Q. Yes.
7 A. I picked Caryl up and took her to the
8 hospital. You know, I went to Reis Reports. I
9 got a call from Kerry Shapiro saying that she
10 was very sick telling her it would be her last
11 day.
12 Q. What day was that when they told Mrs.
13 Leventhal that it would be her last day?
14 A. June 22nd give or take a day or two.
15 Q. Of 1995?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Did they tell Mrs. Leventhal that same
18 day that it would be her last day?
19 A. Yes. No notice at all.
20 Q. And that same day, she had an
21 exacerbation of her multiple sclerosis?
22 A. The same day she was taken into an
23 ambulance to the hospital displaying signs of
24 extreme stress.
25 Q. On that day, did you speak to anyone fromVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 47
M.LEVENTHAL
1 Reis Reports about Mrs. Leventhal's
2 termination?
3 A. Getting into a thing with them?
4 Q. No. Did you have any conversations with
5 them about the circumstances of
6 Mrs. Leventhal being told that that would be
7 her last day?
8 A. Kerry Shapiro called me up and said,
9 "Michael, could you please come over here?"
10 That is it. - -
11 Q. When Mrs. Shapiro called you, what did
12 she tell you had happened?
13 A. She sounded very upset. Kerry was a nice
14 person. She said, "I think Caryl is not
15 feeling well. She is sick. Could you come
16 over as quickly as you can?"
17 Q. Did you ever learn from anyone aside from
18 Mrs. Leventhal why it was that she was
19 terminated on that date from Reis Reports?
20 A. You mean directly from them? I think it
21 is company policy not to keep somebody after
22 they tell you [S/B "after they give notice"].
23 Q. Did you have any conversations with
24 anyone aside from Mrs. Leventhal about why it
25 was that that was her last day at Reis Reports?
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48M. LEVENTHAL
1 A. I may have spoken to Kerry Shapiro a
2 little bit about it. She said that it was
3 company policy. We kept her on. We kept her
4 on for a few weeks until we found a
5 replacement.
6 Q. Do you remember when you spoke to Mrs.
7 Stewart about that?
8 A. Probably that day. Kerry was really
9 upset, too.
10 Q. I show you what was marked as Defendant's
11 N which is a copy of a copy of the amended
12 complaint in this action.
13 A. Thank you.
14 Q. Have you seen this document before?
is A. Yes.
16 Q. And who prepared this document?
17 A. I wrote up a lot of it. Michael Bressler
18 wrote up a lot of it.
19 Q. Did Mrs. Leventhal participate in the
20 drafting of the complaint?
21 A. Oh, she looks at everything.
22 Q. Please describe then what role you had in
23 drafting this complaint.
24 A. I am probably more familiar with this
25 case than anybody. I work for the association
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49M. LEVENTHAL
1 of the bar. I know lawyers. I have fought in
2 the advent [S/B Admin] process for many years alone, and
3 over the years I have learned -- I am a
4 writer. Given all of that, given the fact that
5 I am able to contemplate certain things, a lot
6 of the narrative I did. I showed it to Caryl,
7 and I said, "Does this capture it?" She read
8 it slowly and said, "Yes, it does." I turned it
9 over to Michael who did his legal magic work.
10 Q. When you showed Mrs. Leventhal a draft of
11 the complaint, did she make any corrections to
12 it?
13 A. She may have.
14 Q. And when she proposed those corrections,
15 did you enter those corrections?
16 A. She is the commander in chief.
17 Q. Is that a yes?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Who actually typed the complaint?
20 A. I typed up the raw work, the narrative
21 and what have you. I E-mailed it over to
22 Michael. Michael typed the rest, and he was
23 the one that put it in the format and sent it
24 back to me for review. I messaged certain
25 technical aspects of it that has had nothing to
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50M. LEVENTHAL
1 do with the actual case. It went back and 2 forth many times always showing it to Caryl. 3 Then, it was a go. 4 Q. And are you aware that there have been 5 other legal documents exchanged between the 6 parties in this lawsuit? 7 A. Like what and who are the parties? 8 Q. For response to interrogatories and
9 response to documents, yes.
10 A. This is -- bear with me.
11 Q. I am asking you what you are aware of?
12 A. So you should understand, all right,
13 Caryl is the commander in chief, I am the chief
14 of staff, Michael Bressler is the field
15 commander and Lila is a co-commander [S/B Corps CDR]. That is
16 the set up.
17 Q. And those other legal documents, were
18 they prepared in the way which is similar in a
19 way to which this was prepared?
20 A. Unless there was a type of document that
21 I have no knowledge of. We are in federal
22 court. I have been through the battles.
23 Federal court Michael knows.
24 Q. So Mr. Leventhal, you prepared early
25 drafts of each of the documents, and it went
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51M. LEVENTHAL
1 through this process with Mr. Bressler and Mrs.
2 Leventhal reviewing the documents; is that
3 roughly the process?
4 A. Right. Except for certain things that
5 are federal in nature in which case Michael
6 might ask me questions or two, and I will give
7 him the answers. I am just not familiar with
8 formats in the federal sue process.
9 MR. FISHER: I ask the court reporter
10 -to- as Defendant's Exhibit Q
11 a copy of certain pages that I
12 have printed off of a web site.
13 [Whereupon, a 5-page document was
14 hereby marked as Defendant's
15 Exhibit Q for identification, as
16 of this date, by the reporter.]
17 Q. -Mr. Leventhal, I am handing you what has
18 been marked as Defendant's Exhibit Q. Do you
19 recognize this to be a copy of pages from the
20 web site Justice-Denied dot net*? [*NOTE: The site is www.justice-denied.net]
21 A. It is an old copy. Changes may have
22 subsequently been made. I am sure they have
23 been.
24 Q. And is this a summary of the
25 administrative process that you referred to
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52M. LEVENTHAL
1 earlier?
2 A. Yes. It is, sir.
3 Q. Did you prepare the summary?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And in connection with the information on
6 the web site, is Mrs. Leventhal also commander
7 in chief, to use the term that you used
8 earlier?
9 A. No. She is not commander in chief. She
10 is the publisher. I am the editor. Nothing
11 gets on unless it is approved by her.
12 Q. And throughout the administrative process
13 in this case, were you Mrs. Leventhal's
14 authorized representative?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. What was the end result of the
17 administrative process?
18 A. The end result was after the US
19 Department of Justice adjudicator admitted that
20 the EEO counselor had not essentially told the
21 truth when she made the affidavit, came out
22 with an affidavit saying that we had never
23 wanted the file for religious and racial
24 discrimination. He had allowed every basis
25 that we wanted just as we had wanted originally
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53M. LEVENTHAL
1 and planned. I realized that Caryl was not
2 ready for the rigors of a US EEO evaluation or
3 for going into federal court. I stalled for
4 time, and I filed for an appeal for the US
5 operations. Following it would take a year and
6 it did. By that time, we were ready to jump
7 off and go into the progression of filing suit.
8 Q. And so at that time, you reelected not to
9 pursue the process but elected to file suit?
10 A. It is rigged. It only works if they want
11 it to work.
12 Q. When you say, "it only works if they want
13 it to work," are you referring to the
14 administrative process?
15 A. Of course. I have documentation for
16 everything. There is no speculation.
17 Q. The document that you have for everything
18 that is contained in Defendant's Exhibit Q, has
19 that been sent to us?
20 A. Except for the -- except for the letters
21 that Larry Zief had written to William Michael
22 McCauley, the excellent EEO judge. We had
23 three-way conversations. I don't have them on
24 tape between Larry Zief, myself and Judge
25 McCauley. I think this whole page is detailed.
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54M. LEVENTHAL
1 Q. To him?
2 A. Yes. Respectfully, that, you know, I
3 will get together as much of the motions that
4 Larry Zief made, and I think I sent you my
5 counterattacks, if you will, that were
6 virtually all essential.
7 Q. This is with the earlier issue that we
8 discussed that is simply all information
9 concerning the process that you have in your
10 possession be provided and that includes
11 information that you may have marked up. I
12 would ask for copies of any edits or comments
13 that you have made to any of the documents that
14 you have in your possession.
15 A. Oh, sure.
16 Q. Mr. Leventhal, are you aware that
17 Mrs. Leventhal claims that she was
18 discriminated against in the hiring process at
19 INS?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And what is your understanding of the
22 facts on which that claim is based?
23 A. It is based on the fact that she was made
24 a formal offer in May of 1995. She was pressed
25 for a starting date which she gave, I believe
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M. LEVENTHAL
1 it was to be June 5th, or something like that,
2 of 1995. Several days -- she gave notice to
3 the company in which she had worked and gotten
4 excellent reviews for 3 and a half years. Five
5 days she was supposed to begin, she got a call
6 from , a Robert Brewlay from INS saying that you
7 can't start. I spoke to Robert Brewlay a
8 couple of times. He stopped speaking to
9 Caryl. Caryl, of course -- what else? Should
10 I continue? I could go on and on. I am a
11 talkie person.
12 Q. Let me stop you there. You mentioned
13 conversations with Robert Brewlay. In your
14 conversations with --
15 A. Which occurred because he stopped
16 responding when Caryl tried calling.
17 Q. In your conversation, what did
18 Mr. Brewlay tell you about why it was that
19 Mrs. Leventhal's start date had been postponed?
20 A. He said that other people had points
21 ahead of her. I said, "What kind of points are
22 you speaking about?" He stuttered and said
23 points. I said, "Other people more highly
24 rated?" He said, "Well, they claim they are." I
25 said, "What is the rating process and
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56MLEVENTHAL
1 procedure, Mr. Brewlay?" He stuttered and
2 couldn't go any further.
3 Q. Can you remember anything else about
4 conversations that you had with Mr. Brewlay
5 concerning the reason that Mrs. Leventhal's
6 start date at INS had been postponed?
7 A. I remember him saying that this has never
8 happened before, that people are busting up
9 opposition. I don't remember anything else. I
10 can only speculate.
11 Q. I ask you not to speculate.
12 Did you have any conversations with
13 anyone else from INS concerning the reason why
14 Mrs. Leventhal's start date had been postponed?
15 A. No conversations, sir.
16 Q. Are you aware that Mrs. Leventhal claims
17 that during the course of her employment at INS
18 she was discriminated against based on her
19 religion?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Did you have any conversations with
22 anyone from INS concerning discrimination
23 against Mrs. Leventhal on account of her
24 religion?
25 A . No.VERITEXT
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MLEVENTHAL
1 Q. Are you aware that Mrs. Leventhal also
2 claims that she was discriminated against not
3 only in the hiring process but also throughout
4 her advent there and in connection with her
5 termination on the account of her race?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Did you have any conversations with
8 anyone from INS concerning discrimination
9 against Mrs. Leventhal on the account of her
10 race?
11 A. When you say "INS," do you mean before
12 the advent [Admin] process?
13 Q. Yes.
14 A . No.
15 Q. During the course of
16 Mrs. Leventhal's employment with INS, did you
17 have any conversations with Brenda Grant?
18 A. Oh, yes.
19 Q. And when was your first conversation with
20 Brenda Grant?
21 A. My first conversation -- I really should
22 have looked it up. I came here without
23 reviewing anything. The first conversation I
24 had with Brenda Grant, and by the way, I
25 listened into all of Caryl's conversations for
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58MLEVENTHAL
1 June 10th, 11th and 12th. I heard them all.
2 Brenda Grant I believe I spoke to after Agatha
3 Stewart. I believe I spoke to Agatha Stewart
4 on the 11th. I believe I spoke to Brenda Grant
5 on the 12th of June, 1996. I did tell her we
6 have phone logs. Maybe you want to request
7 that. I will send you the phone logs. I
8 believe that phone logs are already encompassed
9 in documents requested that have been served.
10 You may have them. I will send them to you.
11 Q. We have not been provided with phone
12 logs.
13 A. From the telephone company.
14 Q. To the extent that you have them in your
15 possession, you can provide them.
16 A. I have records of all telephone calls
17 that lasted for more than three minutes. Up
18 until October of 1997, the only phone records
19 that were kept and available to the public upon
20 request were those of more than three minutes
21 of duration. While I don't have all the calls,
22 I do have some of them, and I will provide it
23 for you.
24 Q. Focus now on your first conversation with
25 Brenda Grant.VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 59
KLEVENTHAL
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. What did she say to you, and what did you
3 say to her?
4 A. A thirty-second background.
5 Q. Tell me what you and she said.
6 A. I am a libertarian. I assume if you are
7 going to be speaking to a federal agency, they
8 are going to be taping this. I will always
9 speak very -- not that I am an ill-mannered
10 person. I would always be calm and deliberate
11 about my words. I called Brenda Grant, and I
12 said, "Ms. Grant, this is Michael Leventhal. I
13 have Caryl standing right here." She was
14 sitting actually. "She is standing right here.
15 Before I put her on, I want to ask you, please,
16 she has an exacerbation of multiple sclerosis.
17 Please don't upset her." Brenda Grant said,
18 "She has to speak to me herself." The court
19 reporter cannot really record the way she said
20 it. I know hate filled her voice. She had
21 it. I said, "You don't understand. I will put
22 her right on. I am just asking you, please,
23 she is very sick with an exacerbation of
24 multiple sclerosis." She said, "Caryl has to
25 speak to me herself." I said that I will putVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 60
KLEVENTHAL
1 her on right now. I put Caryl on. I may have
2 missed a few words here and there. Trust me, I
3 don't get a chill easily. I have seen a lot of
4 stuff in my life. This gave me a chill, her
5 voice.
6 Q How many additional telephone
7 conversations did you have with Mrs. Grant?
8 A. With Mrs. Grant, I only had one personal
9 conversation though I was listening in on all
10 of the conversations that Caryl made to
11 Ms. Grant.
12 Q. And that one conversation that you had
13 with her is the one that you just recounted?
14 A. Yes. I may be missing a few words here
15 and there. I want you to know I was very
16 precise of telling her it was an exacerbation
17 of multiple sclerosis. I was very precise
18 about her please not yelling, and I was very
19 well-mannered.
20 Q. Have you had any -- you testified that
21 you did have telephone conversations with
22 Agatha Stewart.
23 A . Yes.
24 Q. When was the first telephone conversation
25 that you with Ms. Stewart?
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61M. LEVENTHAL
1 A. The first conversation that I had, I
2 believe, was the day before, and -- I may be
3 getting a day or two mixed up. Caryl called
4 Agatha Stewart. She had a mouth on her. This
5 is a really crude person. I called up the next
6 day. Caryl was trying to comply. She was
7 really sick and really trying to comply.
8 Before Caryl called Agatha Stewart up I believe
9 a second time, and bear with me, I know I
10 called up Agatha Stewart and I said that this
11 is Michael Leventhal. I was really nice. I
12 said, "Caryl Leventhal is really sick with an
13 exacerbation of --" She said, "I have nothing
14 to stay to you and have a nice day."
15 Q. So she said I can't speak to you have a
16 nice day and hung up?
17 A. She said that I have nothing to say to
18 you and have a nice day.
19 Q. Did she hang up on you?
20 A. Yes. Zoom.
21 Q. Aside from that telephone conversation,
22 did you have any other conversations with Ms.
23 Stewart?
24 A. I don't believe so.
25 Q. Aside from attending their depositions inVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 62
M.LEVENTHAL
1 this action, have you ever met Brenda Grant?
2 A. No.
3 Q. What about Agatha Stewart?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Is the same true for Mr. Brewlay?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. I may have asked you this. Did you have
8 any conversations with anyone from INS with
9 respect to Mrs. Leventhal's claim that she was
10 discriminated against on the account of her
11 race?
12 A. Not including the advent process. I
13 don't believe so. I don't believe so.
14 Q. As I am sure, are you aware of
15 Mrs. Leventhal's claim that she was
16 discriminated against on the account of her
17 disability?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did you have any conversations with
20 anyone from INS concerning discrimination
21 against Mrs. Leventhal on the account of her
22 disability?
23 A. I don't believe so.
24 Q. When Mrs. Leventhal suffered an
25 exacerbation of her multiple sclerosisVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 63
M.LEVENTHAL
1 following June 7,1996, when was the next time
2 that she saw a doctor with respect to her MS?
3 A. On June 12th or June 13th.
4 Q. Who did she see at that time?
5 .A. Dr. Kam C. Poon.
6 Q. K-A-M C. Poon.
7 A. I might add that she could go earlier.
8 Dr. Poon has two offices. One is more
9 convenient. I felt best that she should rest
10 and wait until he has office hours than run
11 over early. When you have an exacerbation of
12 multiple sclerosis, it is not like they could
13 give you a shot of penicillin and it goes away.
14 Q. Did you go with Mrs. Leventhal to that
15 appointment?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Were you there when Dr. Poon discussed
18 her condition?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. What did Dr. Poon say about her
21 condition?
22 A. I don't remember very much about it. I
23 was very angry, very concerned, very scared.
24 Not angry at Caryl. I was angry at what had
25 happened. I was angry at conversations at what
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64M. LEVENTHAL
1 had transpired and the total casualness. Dr.
2 Poon is a philosophical guy. He said it was
3 the stress. You know, he is very soothing in
4 that respect. He said it was an exacerbation
5 of multiple sclerosis. He said that she is
6 obviously under a lot of stress. He wrote her
7 a letter saying that Caryl had an acute
8 exacerbation, please excuse. It was sent right
9 up to the chain of command and not mentioned in
10 the termination letter and a standard
11 procedure. It was saying that she has an acute
12 exacerbation of multiple sclerosis as well as,
13 I think, he mentioned hypertension and that she
14 cannot come back to work for a few weeks.
15 Immediately, it was sent to everybody from
16 Brenda Grant to Edward McElroy.
17 Q. Did Dr. Poon say also that she was
18 suffering from hypertension?
19 A. I believe so. I believe he wrote it and
20 we saw it there. Hypertension and multiple
21 sclerosis in Caryl's case go very close
22 together.
23 Q. Had Mrs. Leventhal, to your knowledge,
24 been diagnosed with hypertension before?
25 A. No. She has low blood pressure and lowerVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 65
M.LEVENTHAL
1 than normal. She is a perfect insurance risk
2 except that she is dying.
3 Q. Did you ever have any conversations with
4 Mr. McElroy concerning Mrs. Leventhal's
5 termination at INS?
6 A.. No. Nobody has ever spoken to him.
7 Q. Have you ever had any conversations with
8 Mrs. McPherson concerning Mrs. Leventhal's
9 .termination from INS?
10 A . No.
11 Q. Did you ever have any conversations with
12 Mrs. McPherson concerning Mrs. Leventhal's
13 employment at INS?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. At the outset of this deposition, you
16 referred to Mrs. Grant and Stewart as the
17 primary discriminators against Mrs. Leventhal;
18 is that fair?
19 A. Yes. They were guilty of culmination [S/B "co-mission"].
20 Q. When you say they "guilty of
21 culmination," in your view, they affirmatively
22 did things that were discriminatory?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did they both discriminate against Mrs.
25 Leventhal on the account of her race?
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66M. LEVENTHAL
1 A. Now, you are calling for speculation.
2 Q. I don't want a speculative answer. I
3 will rephrase my question.
4 Is it your understanding that
5 Mrs. Grant discriminated against Mrs. Leventhal
6 on the account of her race?
7 A. Given the information that Caryl gave me,
8 and I have never in my life know this woman to
9 lie, never, aside from not hurting someone's
10 feelings about their dress or what have you,
11 yes. Definitely.
12 Q. But your knowledge about
13 Mrs. Grant is based upon what Mrs. Leventhal
14 told you?
15 A. Yes. And what I pick up against Mrs.
16 Grant. The best man at our wedding happened to
17 be black. This is not a sensitive thing with
18 us. I know people. I can tell you that that
19 woman hated Caryl.
20 Q. By the terms of your understanding that
21 the basis for that hatred was in part racial,
22 is that based on what Mrs. Leventhal told you?
23 A. Based on what Caryl told me was going on
24 in the office. We are very talkie to each
25 other.VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 67
M.LEVENTHAL
1 Q. Is the same true for your understanding
2 as to discrimination by Ms. Stewart against
3 Mrs. Leventhal?
4 A. I know the facts from what Caryl told me.
5 Q. Having met Ms. Stewart, are you aware
6 that she is white?
7 A. Yes. White, married to an
8 African-American and living, I believe, in an
9 African-American community and having
10 essentially very, very, very, close affiliation
11 and identification with the African-American
12 community.
13 MR. FISHER: I ask the court reporter
14 to mark as Defendant's Exhibit R
15 a letter from Mrs. Leventhal.
16 The exhibit consists of five
17 pages, and the letter is dated
18 June 13, 1996.
19 [Whereupon, a 5-page document was
20 hereby marked as Defendant's
21 Exhibit R for identification, as
22 of this date, by the reporter.]
23 Q. Mr. Leventhal, have you seen this letter
24 before?
25 A. Assuming it hasn't been altered in anyVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 68
MLEVENTHAL
1 way, yes, I have. 2 Q. Take a moment to ensure that it hasn't 3 been altered. 4 A. I wouldn't remember it. I would have to 5 match it up against my records. I will take
6 your word for it now.
7 Q. Did you prepare this letter?
8 A. Yes, I did.
9 Q. And you prepared it for
10 Mrs. Leventhal's signature?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And Mrs. Leventhal signed it before it
13 was sent out?
14 A. Oh, sure. Sure.
15 Q. Let me refer you to page three of the
16 letter.
17 A. Right.
18 Q. Underneath the all caps it states of my
19 desire to survive --
20 A. Right.
21 Q. Let me just read into the record the
22 three sentences following that. Unless
23 otherwise instructed by my physician, I shall
24 report to INS personnel on Monday, dune 24,
25 1996. I shall request a transfer and be openVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 69
MLEVENTHAL
to any other ideas admen may have. If you wish to terminate me, I suppose that is your right. Do you know whether Mrs. Leventhal, in fact,
4 reported this to INS personnel on Monday, June
5 24, 1996?
6 A. I did. I was upset at her. She was not
7 well. She lives up to her commitments. She
8 also tells me when she does something that we
9 agreed that she was not going to do.
10 Q. Did you go with her?
11 A. No. I did not. I wouldn't have allowed
12 her to go. When I say "allowed her," only out
13 of deep concern. She was very ill.
14 Q. And when you say you can tell me the
15 whole story, is that based on what
16 Mrs. Leventhal told you?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Who did she meet with on June 24, 1996?
19 A. She met with Robert Brewlay [S/B "Brouilett"] who seemed
20 very -- now, I am -- do you want me to go on?
21 Q. Tell me what Mrs. Leventhal told you
22 about that meeting with Mrs. Brewlay.
23 A. She went to Robert Brewlay. She was very
24 -- how did she put it. A notice that she even
25 showed you. She said she wanted to deliver
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70M. LEVENTHAL
1 certain packages of information so that it 2 could go into her personnel records including 3 the medical note. She said the man had no 4 courtesy to the extent that he motioned over to 5 her to sit on the chair, and the chair was full 6 of books or papers. She was sitting on the 7 edge. She said that she felt like she would be 8 falling. She said that she would like a
9 transfer, and can you do something about what 10 is going on right now. Again, I am-not reading 11 this. I am winging it. She [S/B "He Said"] said that she
12 can't change things ["... in the middle"] 13 Q. Tell me what you remember. 14 A. There are certain things that stick in my 15 mind. That he forced her to sit in a chair 16 with a lot of papers on it, and she had to sit 17 on the edge and felt like she was falling and 18 you can't change things in the middle or 19 whatever that means. I said, "What the hell is 20 he talking about?" She said, "I don't know, but 21 he is doing it." He said that you have to speak 22 to Brenda Grant, and Caryl said that she is the 23 one that -- she had yelled at me and this and 24 that. I can't do anything. You have to speak 25 to Brenda Grant. Those are the things that --
VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 71
M. LEVENTHAL
1 some things in life you never forget. You
2 never forget meanness and humiliation. Things
3 I never forget.
4 Q. Do you know whether Mrs. Leventhal
5 requested a transfer at that meeting?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. What was Mr. Brewlay's response to her
8 request for a transfer?
9 A. I don't change things in the middle. I
10 can't change things in the middle. That is not
11 the first time that she asked for a transfer by
12 the way. I don't know if Caryl told you. She
13 went to personnel a few months before. She
14 also told them in personnel, and I have the
15 name of the person but not with me, she also
16 told them several months prior to this that she
17 had multiple sclerosis in the personnel
18 department. I can get the name of the
19 individual that she spoke to if you want.
20 Q. Based on your understanding, when was the
21 first time that Mrs. Leventhal told someone at
22 INS that she suffered from multiple sclerosis?
23 A. November of 1996. I will tell you why.
24 You want to know why? I know.
25 Q. How do you know about that?VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 72
ALEVENTHAL
1 A. Okay. I told Caryl when she was starting
2 and I said, "You got this job. You got this
3 job because I made a big stink." I said that I
4 was going to file a discrimination complaint.
5 People are not going to forget this. This is
6 civil service. I know civil service through
7 the military. It could be very mean. I said
8 to go there and at the first opportunity even
9 though we sent a letter to Leonard Klein, the
10 number two person. You go there and you go do
11 exactly that. You tell as many people as you
12 can and cover your ass because I don't like
13 what they were doing this summer, and I don't
14 like the investigation that they were
15 conducting. You know all about that
16 investigation.
17 Q. In your view, if it were not for
18 complaints that you have made when
19 Mrs. Leventhal's start date was postponed,
20 Mrs. Leventhal would not have been hired?
21 A. That is my feelings because she was -
22 well, I will wait for you to ask the question.
23 I don't want to be rude.
24 Q. What is the basis of your understanding
25 that Mrs. Leventhal would not have been hired
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73M.LEVENTHAL
1 absent your complaining about discrimination in
2 the hiring process?
3 A. I will give you one that really struck
4 me.
5 Q. Don't just give me one. The basis for
6 your belief.
7 A. Primarily, Caryl Leventhal was given a
8 complete security screening and approval before
9 she was made the job offer. Shortly after I
10 wrote the first complaint, she got a call from
11 a Diane or a Joanne McCauley that was from INS
12 personnel. I forgot. She requested such
13 things as a release of IRS records. She said
14 if you don't sign away your IRS records to us,
15 we have proof of all of that, you know that the
16 job would never be offered. When you hear that
17 and you hear somebody go on and say we are
18 going to be conducting an investigation and we
19 are going to be checking and going to speak to
20 your landlady and we are going to be speaking
21 to this one after an investigation is
22 completed, a full security investigation, and
23 they are doing a second one, I could tell you
24 that I know about civil service like I know
25 about the military, that means they are setting
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74M. LEVENTHAL
1 you up. She also, I might add, obscured who
2 was conducting the investigation making like
3 was it OPM. We thought OPM was after Caryl.
4 The person conducting the investigation was a
5 Steven Smith in Vermont in April of 1996 seven
6 months after she began employment, Steven Smith
7 was still conducting the investigation against
8 her.
9 Q. Why is it that you think that
10 Mrs. Leventhal was-being subjected to what you
11 perceived to be an excessive investigation of
12 her background? Why do you think this was
13 being done?
14 A. Because I don't think that she was
15 forgiven for filing a complaint after the job
16 was rescinded, and I think there were people
17 who said who the hell is she and who the hell
18 is he to make these complaints. I think they
19 were determined to make life difficult. I
20 won't do any further speculation. I am not
21 interested in getting into a whole thing. I
22 see a certain logical imperative here. I have
23 seen it in other circumstances. Not in the
24 private sector. In the public sector where it
25 has a more crude quality to it.
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75M. LEVENTHAL
1 Q. When you say there were people determined
2 to make her life difficult, do you know who
3 these people were?
4 A. Steven Smith was conducting the
5 investigation. Speak to Steven Smith and why
6 it was a never-ending investigation. You put
7 enough pressure on him. He said maybe it was
8 him. I don't know. I just know this is very
9 out of the norm.
10 MR. FISHER: I ask that the court
11 reporter mark as Defendant's
12 Exhibit S a two page letter from
13 Mr. Leventhal dated February 20,
14 1998.
15 [Whereupon, a 2-page letter was hereby
16 marked as Defendant's Exhibit S
17 for identification, as of this
18 date, by the reporter.]
19 Q. Mr. Leventhal, please review this
20 exhibit. Let me finish. It was a letter that
21 you wrote to Diane Weaver.
22 A. If it was unaltered, it was a letter that
23 I have written. It was a letter that appears
24 to be written by me. Oh yeah. Oh, sure. I
25 remember this.VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 76
M.LEVENTHAL
1 Q. Let me refer you to the second page, last 2 sentence in the paragraph that begins had 3 always been my feeling -- let me read the 4 sentence that I am interested in into the 5 record. Now, it is plain that INS has gone too 6 far by covering for people at 26 Federal Plaza 7 who has committed at least one felony by 8 attempting to intimidate the captioned 9 claimant. Who is it that you believe committed 10 this felony? 11 A. Now, I don't remember. I have to think 12 about it. I don't remember offhand. I don't 13 remember what I was referencing. It has been a 14 while. I am agitated also. I can tell you I 15 am not a lawyer. All right. You know that. I 16 consider -- I consider when you take an 17 individual that you know has multiple sclerosis 18 that you know has a disability and you force 19 them to climb seven feet unsteady shelving, 20 stick an unsteady step ladder under them and 21 then when she pleads for help, you stand around 22 laughing and you want her to fall and crack her 23 head open so you can replace her, I will tell 24 you, since this is a civil suit, but this is 25 the closest thing that I come to a criminal
VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 77
M.LEVENTHAL
1 act, I consider this to be an attempted
2 murder. It may have been that or other
3 things. I consider when you have an
4 administrative process that has committed many
5 instances of obstructing justice, lying in
6 affidavits, that you have a situation where
7 crimes have been committed under administrative
8 law and under federal law, specifically, I
9 would say I don't remember offhand what this
10 was about. I would have to read it on the
11 train.
12 Q. Let me draw your attention to the first
13 page, paragraph number two. Please review that
14 to yourself and let me know whether that
15 refreshes your recollection as to what the
16 felony may be referring to.
17 A. Page one?
18 Q. Yes. Paragraph two.
19 A. Okay. Let me tell you -
20 Q. Assuming that one thing connects to the
21 other. This is your letter. It was a long
22 time ago. I am trying to determine what it is
23 that you remember. Let me ask the question.
24 Does looking at the paragraph number two
25 help to refresh your recollection as to what
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1 the felony references on page two may be
2 referring to?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. What is it referring to?
5 .A. In November of 1997 we were informed by
6 Peter Shilling, the INS contract investigator,
7 that if Caryl did not give an affidavit with a
8 tracked [S/B "truncated"] set of basis that did not include
9 racial or religious, they said that they are
10 looking to close this out. They want this case
11 closed out. They claim you were not
12 cooperative and the complaint is killed. We
13 had agreed that we would continue or Caryl
14 would continue in the affidavit, and after it
15 was over, I did a little research because,
16 again, you know a setup deal when you see a
17 setup deal. I discovered according to the
18 administrative ruling that you can file for a
19 review with the US Equal Employment Opportunity
20 Commission. They do not have a right to make
21 decisions in administrative law. It gets
22 bounced back to the agency. They have a right
23 to review and recommend. I wrote in early 1998
24 requesting a review by a US EEO judge,
25 administrative law judge. I sent two letters
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1 to the deputy director. It was Diane Weaver at
2 the time. I know there was an earlier one who
3 has since been promoted. In any event, I sent
4 two letters by certified mail. By this time, I
5 must tell you, my faith in the system had been
6 diminished somewhat.
7 Q. I think my question was what does the
8 felony reference?
9 A. According to law, I have that right or
10 Caryl has that right to have a review by INS
11 EEO. I called up, they lost the letters. I
12 spoke to somebody, a Mrs. Elerby, who was nice
13 and professional. I faxed in copies of those
14 letters remaining on the telephone. She
15 received them in January. I got a certain
16 amount of time to do this or else you lose that
17 right. Those faxes were subsequently lost. I
18 had to write a letter to Janet Reno by
19 certified mail saying that I was going to get
20 in touch with the newspapers before because of
21 the faxes. It was a felony, certainly, when
22 going against federal rules.
23 Q. When you referred to obstruction of
24 justice, and I realize that you are not
25 speaking as a lawyer, sir, you are referring to
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1 actions that were taken by individuals in INS
2 at all levels; is that right?
3 A. INS, EEO from the time that we legally
4 and validly put through the complaint and it
5 was not accented to the time effected to the
6 time, that they finally gave in and turned it
7 over to INS or to the US Equal Employment
8 Opportunity Division.
9 Q. And you believe that the purpose of the
10 obstruction was to avoid or stifle
11 Mrs. Leventhal's complaint of discrimination?
12 A. Racial and religious. Want me to tell
13 you why?
14 Q. Why what?
15 A. Why I believe that they were doing this
16 because of discrimination?
17 Q. Yes.
18 A. Because I spoke to -- it was a ratty
19 lawyer of a fellow named Larry Zief, the deputy
20 regional counsel. Everything that I am telling
21 you we would swear to under a polygraph, and I
22 spoke to him, and he introduced himself and he
23 read the complaint, and he said that I have no
24 doubts that everything that you say is true. I
25 said, "Are you going to do anything about it?"
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1 He said no. I said why. He said, "Because we
2 don't want a racial problem. If we go after
3 Brenda Grant, she would scream racial
4 discrimination and we can't have that." I said,
5 "So you are going before a sick woman to try
6 to keep these basis to be brought forth and
7 keep it down to a certain period of time and
8 only physical, right?" He says yes. I said,
9 "That is not very nice, is it?" He said that
10 we have to do it. I said,
11 "Has there ever been
11 a case of a white person going through this
12 process accusing a black person of anti-white
13 racism that has gotten through?" He said,
14 "Well, you are. We have got one now."
15 Q. Just so I understand, it is your view
16 that people were working at various levels in
17 the regional counselor's office and INS and EEO
18 and locally at INS to prevent this complaint of
19 discrimination of getting through because it
20 related to an allegation of anti-white racism?
21 A. By a black person or by someone
22 affiliated with the black community. Yes. I
23 am not saying that they, themselves, were
24 racist. I am saying that there was a concept
25 of putting a lid on this stuff because they
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1 didn't want trouble. 2 Q. If I draw your attention to paragraph two 3 on the first page and refer to 4 Mr. Atkinson, it says that he was skulking on 5 the other side of the door for one hour. Is 6 this something that you saw or 7 Mrs. Leventhal told you about? 8 A. I witnessed it, sir. Would you like me 9 to tell you what happened?
10 Q. Yes. -
11 A. I was with Caryl, she was giving her 12 deposition to Peter Shilling in November of 13 1997. Caryl was not well. I mean, she will 14 never fully recover. She had to come in and 15 she was not feeling well. She had to put cold 16 water on her face. I went over to the door 17 with her, opened up the door, and here is this 18 tall, slim guy glaring and goes and moves back 19 a little bit from the door and Caryl looks at 20 him. I move between almost instinctively 21 between Caryl and him. He is glaring at her, 22 and we walked outside, and I asked Caryl who is 23 that. She said that he works for Brenda 24 Grant. I said what does he do. He is a DAO.
25 What is his name? She had to think about
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1 that. She said Ron Atkinson. I said, "What
2 the heck did he think he was doing up in
3 personnel?". She said, "I don't know. Maybe
4 Brenda sent him up to listen in. I think that
5 she did send him up there to check up."
6 Sometimes there is nothing, something I don't
7 know. Maybe he had to fill out papers. In any
8 event, when we came back, he was still there
9 only hiding in the corner facing away from us.
10 We went back in and gave the testimony. I
11 don't remember whether I opened up the door or
12 not and stared at him in the face. I truly
13 don't.
14 Q. Let me refer you back to paragraph two in
15 Defendant's Exhibit S. Is it S?16 A. I don't know. Is it?
17 Q. Yes. To stifle Mrs. Leventhal's
18 complaint of discrimination.
19 A. You mean directly? Did they say stifle
20 it? Is that what you are trying to ask me?
21 Q. No. You used that word. I am asking you
22 what you meant.
23 A. I believe that a commander is responsible
24 for the acts of the people under him. I have
25 always felt that one good thing about federal
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1 service is that if you write a letter, you will
2 get a response. I wrote a total of forty-seven
3 letters, probably, or maybe forty or around
4 that. You have pretty much all of them. We
5 wrote letters with copies going right up and
6 originals going to myself and Reno. I don't
7 think it ever directly reached them. I will
8 tell you something. Their staffs took it and
9 tore them up or they are the most inefficient
10 people that I have come across. People are
11 responsible for the actions of their staff. I
12 am responsible for the actions of my staff and
13 the association. That is what military and
14 business is about.
15 Q. In your view, these are not letters that
16 simply fell through the cracks?
17 A. No. Too many letters. Especially when
18 they are articulate. That is no coincidence.
19 It has been a long time since my college
20 courses. The probability is very low.
21 Q. In your view, there was a deliberate
22 attempt to prevent information about these
23 complaints from being addressed?
24 A. I think there are certain things that you
25 don't talk about. One of them is reverse
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1 racism involving a black committing racism and
2 religious brutality against a white person with
3 multiple sclerosis with a vulnerability. I
4 think that the bureaucracy says we kill these
5 things because we don't want trouble.
6 MR. FISHER: I ask the court reporter
7 to mark as Defendant's Exhibit T
8 a letter dated December 10, 1997
9 from
10 Mr. Leventhal. This exhibit is
11 three pages.
12 [Whereupon, a 3-page letter was hereby
13 marked as Defendant's Exhibit T
14 for identification, as of this
15 date, by the reporter.]
16 Q. Mr. Leventhal, please let me know whether
17 or not you recognize this to be a copy of a
18 letter that you wrote.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Is this a copy of a letter that you
21 wrote?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Referring to the first page of the letter
24 to the paragraph that begins "please
25 understand" that is approximately in the middle
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1 of the page after the boldface type?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Let me read it. Please understand that
4 unless a satisfactory resolution of this tragic
5 case can be found by EEO, I will be forced to
6 file civil suit against the justice department
7 while I will prepare Caryl -
8 A. You mean the lawsuit?
9 Q. Correct.
10 A. She might say no- I -can tell you that I
11 find it is stressful. You know, it is not -- I
12 would have preferred that it be worked out on
13 the administrative level. I am not a litigious
14 person nor is Caryl. We were forced into this
15 by the Immigration and Naturalization Service
16 and by their actions on the administrative
17 level: I almost feel sorry for the US Attorney
18 for having to get a case like this. This
19 should have been worked out on another level
20 but was compounded on that other level. You
21 know, Eric, every time we have -- this has gone
22 on for 4 years. Every time we have reached a
23 new level, I turn to Caryl and I say, "You
24 know, maybe a more intelligent group is going
25 to get this. At INS when it reached theVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 87
M. LEVENTHAL
1 regional counsel, I said that the lawyers are
2 going to get it. It can be worked out. They
3 will see what is wrong. Even when we file suit
4 in federal court, I turned to Caryl and I said
5 the US Attorney has got it. They are going to
6 do the right thing." This has been 4 years of
7 everybody. I am not accusing you of doing the
8 wrong thing yet. Every level that we have gone
9 to on this case has been people that we wanted
10 to do the right thing that did nothing or were
11 just mean and nasty and tried to crush this.
12 Q. Have you ever been involved in any
13 lawsuits before?
14 A. Never.
15 Q. Have you ever been deposed before?
16 A. Never. Which is why I talk so much.
17 MR. FISHER: I ask the court reporter
18 to mark as Defendant's Exhibit U
19 a letter dated April 8, 1998
20 from
21 Mr. Leventhal. This is a six
22 page letter.
23 [Whereupon, a 6-page letter was hereby
24 marked as Defendant's Exhibit U
25 for identification, as of thisVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 88
M. LEVENTHAL
1 date, by the reporter.]
2 Q. Mr. Leventhal, I am handing you
3 Defendant's Exhibit U. Is this a letter that
4 you wrote to Mr. Zief on April 8, 1998?
5 A. Within the context that I am a nonlawyer,
6 all right, the context that I am a writer and
7 we tend to write in a fluid way within that
8 context that -
9 Q. Did you write this letter?
10 A. Oh, sure.
11 Q. Let me turn your attention to the third
12 paragraph. We never said that Caryl was
13 terminated because she had multiple sclerosis.
14 Our contention has always been that this case
15 involves anti-white racism and anti-racism, and
16 Brenda Grant in consort with others who closed
17 ranks behind her to use Caryl's multiple
18 sclerosis to make her too sick to work and
19 force her out.
20 A. That is why I was trying to explain.
21 Again. I am not a lawyer. This is my
22 speculation. My feelings are that the -- I
23 don't know why this fits in legally or not.
24 Cut me some slack with this.
25 Q. What did you mean when you wrote that?VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 89
M. LEVENTHAL
1 A. What I meant was the primary focus of her
2 discrimination, the primary focus not
3 necessarily the conclusive focus was that they
4 used her multiple sclerosis to brutalize her
5 and make her too sick and force her out.
6 Q. And it is then fair to say that the
7 reason they sought to brutalize her was because
8 she was white and she was Jewish?
9 A. It sounds logical to me. I am not
10 thinking as a lawyer.
11 Q. I am asking what your understanding is of
12 what it is that Mrs. Leventhal suffered.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. That is your understanding?
15 A. Yes. That is my understanding.
16 MR. FISHER: I am handing the court
17 reporter a document dated April
18 14, 1998 which is a letter from
19 Mr. Leventhal to Judge McCauley.
20 [Whereupon, a letter was hereby marked
21 as Defendant's Exhibit V for
22 identification, as of this date,
23 by the reporter.]
24 MS. AYERS: Off the record.
25 [Whereupon, a discussion was held offVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 90
M. LEVENTHAL
1 the record.]
2 Q. I am handing you, Mr. Leventhal, what has
3 been marked as Defendant's Exhibit V. Mr.
4 Leventhal, please review this document and let
5 me know whether this is a copy of a letter that
6 you have written.
7 A. Yes. It is one of the letters that I had
8 written to him.
9 Q. Was this letter written on
10 Mrs. Leventhal's behalf?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Did she review this letter?
13 A. As best as she could. You got to
14 remember, Mrs. Leventhal is not the
15 Mrs. Leventhal that she used to be. She was
16 less of what she used to be on April 14, 1998
17 than she is now.
18 Q. Let me ask you generally about the
19 process of writing letters to the INS EEO
20 during the course of the administrative
21 process.
22 A. Right.
23 Q. Did you consult with Mrs. Leventhal
24 during that process to ensure that your letters
25 accurately reflected the positions that she
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91KLEVENTHAL
1 wished to take in the administrative process?
2 A. Throughout the administrative process,
3 and allow me a few words to explain it. You
4 come home from work, you cook, you clean and
5 then, you write letters to answer briefs and do
6 things that you have never done before until
7 2:00 in the morning. Then, you go back to work
8 again the next day. You do the best that you
9 can not being a lawyer. You show it to your
10 wife and you show it to her a few times and you
11 try to explain. Not being a lawyer you can't
12 look and say we have to phrase it this way and
13 phrase it that way or else they will get us on
14 this technicality or that but you don't really
15 know. You don't know. You actually trust the
16 other side to some extent. It is the
17 government. It is your government. You wear a
18 uniform, damnit. It is your government. Maybe
19 I am not answering it. Caryl reviewed it.
20 There are a lot of things that she doesn't
21 understand on a conceptual level. You speak to
22 her, and she sounds like she knows, and she can
23 talk histories and facts of the past. Certain
24 things she just can't do anymore. I am not a
25 lawyer. I couldn't afford a lawyer for this.
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1 You just do the best that you can to be as
2 truthful as you can, and maybe you use wrong
3 words and because you are a writer you are a
4 little too flowery and you don't think that
5 people are going to jump on a word and tear it
6 apart, and they are not going to understand a
7 word that you are saying.
8 Q. Did she review the letters?
9 A. She reviewed it as best as she could
10 review it.
11 Q. How did Mrs. Leventhal come to retain Mr.
12 Bressler in this lawsuit?
13 A. Michael Bressler is a member of the
14 association of the bar. We had decided in
15 early 1999 that we were going to be filing
16 suit. I was shopping around because now
17 suddenly lawyers are actually interested in
18 this case because it has passed all of the
19 paperwork and the whole thing. I wanted to
20 find I lawyer that I felt would have some
21 energy and maybe understand what we were doing
22 because there was more than money involved.
23 Integrity, principle, name and heritage
24 involved in what we wanted. I have known all
25 of these guys for a long time. I am friendly
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93M.LEVENTHAL
1 with a lot of members in the association
2 because of the position that I am in. I met
3 Steve Bennett who is a state lawyer, and we
4 were talking. He was talking about this guy
5 Michael that is energetic. I said, "Heck, I
6 know him. I was the one that got his computer
7 for him and recommended it." He came down with
8 Lila and explained the case. I invited him
9 over to our apartment to meet with Caryl, and
10 we told him and explained and said "Look, this
11 is something where there is more there than
12 money. Her records have to be changed, slander
13 must stop and honor must be served." He said
14 okay. I think you are stupid. That is a
15 joke. Lawyers don't understand these things.
16 That is how Michael was retained. Caryl
17 approved of him. He won't sell us out. I said
18 great. I think he is okay, too, and we will
19 all work together on this.
20 Q. Just a few additional questions.
21 Has Mrs. Leventhal been diagnosed with
22 any anxiety disorders?
23 A. Before?
24 Q. Before June of 1995.25 A. Not that I know of.
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M.LEVENTHAL
1 Q. What about following June of 1995?
2 A. The neurologist that diagnosed her found
3 out that she was, you know, said that she was
4 depressed. Social Security was like really
5 upset because, you know, she was in a very bad
6 way at that time. She still can't work. She
7 was very depressed. The whole process has
8 been -- she feels that the government has
9 turned their back on her.
10 Q. You testified that Social Security
11 administration was upset.
12 A. No. They saw that she was very upset.
13 That is why I get the checks. I validate
14 whatever expenses there are through the checks
15 to show that everything was -- it is not a lot
16 of money, that everything was spent for Caryl.
17 Q. Why is it that you get the checks?
18 A. They felt that she was not equipped on
19 that level to handle the financial, you know -
20 they were gentle about it. Basically, she was
21 not -- don't expect her to do checkbook
22 balancing and stuff like that.
23 Q. Have you, yourself, ever been a victim of
24 discrimination in your employment?
25 A. Have I ever been mistreated? Sure. IVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 95
M.LEVENTHAL
1 have been discriminated against. Like they
2 don't like my looks.
3 Q. Let me limit my question. Have you ever
4 been discriminated against on the account of
5 being white?
6 A. I think it was with people's stupidity.
7 Q. That is not the question. On the account
8 of being white.
9 A. I have worked in and around companies
10 where-on occasions you felt that other groups
11 were given more preference. I don't view
12 things in that way. Legally, you have to. In
13 the private sector, you brush this stuff off.
14 To discriminate religion is irrational. You
15 are hurting your own company. I usually will
16 just say the guy is a jerk or this one is a
17 jerk. I don't walk around with that nor does
18 Caryl.
19 Q. I am not sure that I understand your
20 answer. I think you have testified that you
21 have been in work environments that white
22 groups got preferences -
23 A. I have been in work environments that
24 non-white groups have been treated worse
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ALEVENTHAL
1 is that I find the whole thing to be
2 distasteful. I have seen both sides. It
3 doesn't make sense and it is stupid and it is
4 nonproductive. Have I been victimized? Sure.
5 Have other people been victimized like Caryl
6 was? No. No way. It is all degrees. There
7 is no comparison to anything that happened to
8 me that happened to Caryl. That is why you say
9 that I have to react on a philosophical level.
10 Q. I am not asking a philosophical
11 question. You have testified that you have
12 been victimized in your employment on an
13 account of your race.
14 A. As of everybody. Have I filed a
15 complaint?
16 Q. Have you ever filed a complaint?
17 A . -No.
18 Q. How have you been victimized on the
19 account of your race?
20 A. That is speculation because I have never
21 filed a complaint. If you don't file a
22 complaint, you feel that it is not of a level
23 of significance to be worth discussing.
24 Q. So you have been discriminated against.
25 A. Yes. As is everybody else. I want toVERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 97
M.LEVENTHAL
1 qualify that. I know where you are leading
2 with this. I want to tell you -- I want to
3 tell you that I think that tribalism and that
4 is how I view it, tribalism is prevalent upon
5 all groups. Whites have it, whites with ethnic
6 race have it, blacks have it. I have seen
7 discrimination by native-born blacks, and I
8 have seen discrimination by reformed Jews and
9 orthodox. It is all tribalism. It is all
10 wrong. Nothing that happened to me was ever of
11 a level that I couldn't handle rationally. I
12 was not retried by a system, and I had never
13 had to file a complaint. Some stuff in level
14 you just brush off.
15 [Continued on the next page to allow
16 for signature line and j urat . ]17
la 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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KLEVENTHAL
1 Q. Did Mrs. Leventhal tell you that she did
2 not want to pursue her complaint any further?
3 A. Never. Caryl Leventhal is more adamant
4 than I am.
5 MR. FISHER: No further questions.
6 Thank you.
7 [Whereupon, the examination of the
8 witness was concluded at 1:05
9 P.M.]
10
Michael Leventhal
11 Subscribed and sworn to
12 before me this _--_ day
of _----___-___-, 2000.
13
-----------------------
14 Notary Public
15
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25VERITEXT (212) 267-6868 (516) 608-2400 MLEVENTHAL
1 I N D E X
2 WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
3 M. Leventhal Mr. Fisher
3
4
5
E X H I B I T S
6
DEFENDANT'S DESCRIPTION PAGE
7
P Report 35
8
Q 5-page report 51
9
R 5-page document 67
10 ... : . _ .. _._S 2-page letter 75
11
T 3-page letter 85
12
U 6-page letter 87
13
V Letter 89
14
15
REQUESTS
16 Page Line
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21 18
18 33 10
33 14
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Commentary and Editor's Notes written and Copyright © by: LTC Michael G. Leventhal
Copyright 2000 Reproduction with written permission. Contact: Michael @Justice-Denied.net