Home Up Brouilett Deposition Stewart Deposition Grant Deposition US Atty Evil Road Caryl Depo 1 Caryl Depo 2 Caryl Depo 3 Caryl Depo 4 LTC Mike Depo Dr. Poon Depo

July 31, 2000... The US Attorney Deposes Caryl Leventhal's husband, Lieutenant Colonel Michael G. Leventhal.  Deposition in its Entirety 

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Michael Leventhal is a computer specialist, published author and a reserve military officer holding the rank of Lieutenant Colonel.  He received a decoration during Desert Storm and in 1998, was decorated for bravery (while in uniform) when he saved the life of a civilian at a homicide scene. After September 11, 2001 LTC Leventhal will be placed on active duty to protect the American people from the terrorism brought on by the terrorist friendly actions of the US Department of Justice Immigration and Naturalization Service.

During the Administrative Process conflict with USDOJ/INS from September 1996 until October 1999, LTC Leventhal fought his wife Caryl's legal battles alone.  He is not an attorney.  This was done within an environment of crank calls, and a recorded death threat by the US Department of Justice that the Leventhals either drop the process or be taken care of, "Nazi style."  Subsequently, Alan R. Kaufman Chief of the US Attorney's Office Criminal Division (through Ms. Leventhal's Attorney) will threaten arrest and prosecution if this website isn't censored).

Caryl Leventhal was one of the first US Department of Justice Immigration and Naturalization Service whistleblowers to the type of terrorist friendly corruption and indolence endemic in the USDOJ Immigration and Naturalization Service that will subsequently lead to the death of thousands in America.  This includes the selling of Green Cards (permanent visas) at INS 26 Federal Plaza NYC and issuing of visas without proper background checks.  Thanks to the way laws are structured in America, this can not be a bases of her suit.  On the other hand, it was the prime motivating reason for employees within the US Department of Justice to want Caryl Leventhal out and replaced by someone more amenable to criminal and indolent behavior.  These concerns and obstructionism in the internal USDOJ INS Administrative Complaint Process motivated Ms. Leventhal to bring her suit to court.  She hopes to get testimony to these abuses before it is too late.   Some of this can be found in the deposition of Brenda Grant.

(NOTE: There are numerous although minor technical errors in this deposition.  At times, Mr. Leventhal spoke quickly and emotionally.  Words were picked up incorrectly although they do not appear to create ambiguity as to his responses.  Some have correction notations for clarity.  Others will be corrected as the deposition is reviewed.) 

2
M. LEVENTHAL
     1         APPEARANCES:
     2
                    LAW OFFICES OF
     3              MICHAEL R.     DRESSLER, ESQ.
                              Attorney for Plaintiff
     4                        36 West 44th Street
                              New York, New York 10036
     5
                    BY:  LILA AYERS, ESQ.
     6
     7
                    UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
     8              UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS OFFICE
                              Attorney for Defendant
     9                        100 Church Street
                              New York, New York 10007
     10
                    BY:  ERIC B. FISHER, ESQ.
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KLEVENTHAL
     1    M I C H A E L L E V E N T H A L , a
     2    Non-Party Witness herein, having first been
     3    duly sworn by the Notary Public, was examined
     4    and testified as follows
     5    EXAMINATION BY MR. FISHER:
     6         Q. What is your name?
     7         A. Michael Leventhal.
     8         Q. Where do you reside?
     9         A. --- ---- -----, Brooklyn, New York
     10   11215-3046. 
     11        Q. Good morning. My name is Eric Fisher. I
     12   am an Assistant United States attorney that
     13   represents the defendant in this case. I am
     14   going to ask you a number of questions today.
     15   If, at any time, you don't understand the
     16   question as I put it to you, let me know. I
     17   will be happy to rephrase my question to make
     18   myself understood.
     19        A. Yes.
     20        Q. Let me finish my question before you
     21   provide your answer so the court reporter can
     22   take down everything that we say.  If, at any
     23   time today you need to take a break, let me
     24   know. I will be happy to take a break.
     25        A. Okay.
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M. LEVENTHAL
     Q.   Is there any condition that you are aware of that would
in any way interfere with
your ability to give complete and accurate testimony today?
A.   No, sir.
     Q.   Mr. Leventhal, are you currently employed?
A.   Yes.
Q.   And where are you currently employed?
     A.   The A----------- -- --- --- -- --- ---- -- --.
     Q.	And what is your position there?	
     A. I am the technology resource manager.
     Q. And how long have you worked at ---------?
     A. It will be 4 years on September 3rd.
     Q. And where did you work before ---------?
     A.   I had my own business. I worked for Intercontinental
Data Management.
Q.   Did you own that business?
A.   Yes, I did.
Q.   And how many employees did you have?
     A.   Myself and Caryl Leventhal up until, I guess, 1991.
Then, it was me.
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     1         Q. Did you continue in the business on your
     2    own after 1991?
     3         A. Oh, yes.
     4         Q. Until when?
     5         A. Until June of -- well, until Caryl got
     6    sick. June of 1996, I believe, when I stayed
     7    with her.
     8         Q. And what happened to the business in June
     9    of 1996?
     10        A. Well, it is a partnership that went
     11   dormant.
     12        Q. And what was the purpose of the business?
     13        A. It originally started out as an executive
     14   recruitment firm for Programmers Assistant
     15   Analysts ["Systems Analysts"]. It was more into one of technology
     16   training, development of course, material
     17   curriculum design, training and then, went into
     18   computer consulting, hardware, software
     19   evaluation, recommending to various companies
     20   how they could meet their technology need or
     21   efficiency as well as meeting their
     22   requirements with minimum cost.
     23        Q. And you referred to June of 1996 when you
     24   said that Caryl got sick.  Did you stop working
     25   in order to care for her at that time?
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     1         A. Yes.
     2         Q. And for what period of time did you stop
     3    working to care for her?
     4         A. Until September 3rd. Although I might
     5    add that I knew at that point that I would have
     6    to get what might be called a nine to five job
     7    because even now I do the cooking and the
     8    cleaning and whatever is necessary to be done
     9    after I come home from work.
     10        Q.   When in the year 2000 did you start your
     11   job at the ----- ----?  When did you start your
     12   job at the ----- -------?
     13        A. Oh,  September 3, 1996.
     14        Q. Thank you. Were you employed before
     15   Intercontinental Data Management?
     16        A. We are going back into the 1970s because
     17   Intercontinental was formed as a partnership in
     18   1980 or 1981.
     19        Q. So was your full-time employment from
     20   1980 or 1981 until 1996 with Intercontinental?
     21        A. Sure.  I may have done little things here
     22   and there.  It was insignificant.
     23        Q.   Are you a member of the military?
     24        A. Yes, I am, sir.
     25        Q. How long have you been a member of the
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M. LEVENTHAL
     1    military?
     2         A.   For 10 years now.
     3         Q. And what is your current status in the
     4    military?
     5         A. It is a state command. I hold the rank
     6    of lieutenant colonel. I am stationed at the
     7    army [S/B Armory] on Park Avenue and 63rd Street. That is
     8    the Seventh Regiment Armory.
     9         Q. Have you ever received any recognition or
     10   other awards from the military?
     11        A. Many.  Many.
     12        Q. What are they?
     13        A. All right. I was decorated for bravery
     14   in April. The decoration that I received was
     15   in May of 1998 for something that happened in
     16   March of 1998. I was decorated for bravery for
     17   saving the life of somebody at a homicide scene
     18   while in uniform.
     19        Q.   How did you save that person's life?
     20        A. Well, myself -- it was a Sunday, and we
     21   normally have our monthly drill in one of our
     22   armories.  In this case, several of us were
     23   invited and received approval to be able to
     24   attend a cell trailer that our command sergeant
     25   major was holding. It was to celebrate 4 years [S/B 40]
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     1         in the military. It was in a church in
     2         Harlem.  It was an entering celebration.  After
     3         that, we celebrated.  He gave, and I considered
     4         myself to be honored, he gave myself and a few
     5         other people also little gifts or tokens of
     6         appreciation for what we had done working with
     7         him all the years.  In fact, I learned more
     8         from him than he had ever learned from me.
     9              Q. How did you save this person's life?
     10             A.   I want to provide the background In any
     11        event, we were riding home from Harlem, myself,
     12        two of my sergeants and we were on the
     13        Brooklyn-Queens Expressway. It was a Sunday,
     14        and everybody was speeding fast. All of a
     15        sudden, we see in the middle of the highway and
     16        not on the side of the highway, in the middle
     17        of the highway, two bodies lying there.
     18        Immediately, we pulled up, we ran out, one of
     19        my sergeants, a very brave man, went to the top
     20        of a hill on the highway and risked his life
     21        standing in the middle of oncoming traffic to
     22        ward off the cars. My other sergeant that was
     23        an EMS man got his EMS material. He and I
     24        walked over to the first person who was
     25        obviously dead, very badly mangled. We then
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     1    went over to the second person, and I had
     2    noticed that there were some people on the
     3    side. I went to the people on the side to find
     4    out if EMS was called while my man started
     5    right in the middle of the highway with cars
     6    almost running him over and checking the person
     7    out. We made sure an ambulance was called. A
     8    police car pulled up, but the policeman cowered
     9    inside of his car right by the side of the
     10   read [S/B "road"]. He wouldn't come into the oncoming
     11   traffic. I ran over to the EMS man. While the
     12   EMS man was checking him for broken bones in
     13   the middle of the highway, I shielded him with
     14   my body kneeling in a pool of blood and holding
     15   his bleeding head, got whatever information I
     16   could from him, and for fifteen minutes until
     17   the fire department and EMS came, we shielded
     18   him, and the EMS came, took him away, didn't
     19   have to check him out because he was already
     20   prepped, and that was primarily -- he lived.
     21   He survived. Had anything happened to him, I
     22   probably would have been court-martialed for
     23   doing something without orders.  You don't
     24   think about this when someone's life is at
     25   stake. I received a medal in 1995 [S/B 1996] during the
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     1         storms [This was during the storms and floods of
		Winter 1996.  Michael Leventhal was on active duty,
		working in the Emergency Operations Center at 
		Camp Smith NY, ensuring integrity of the technology
		needed in the NY State rescue effort].
     2              Q.   For now, I want you to list the various
     3         decorations.
     4              A.   Military commendation medal for work
     5         during the Desert Storm, I guess, in 1991. I
     6         got the state merit [Meritorious] service metal. There are a
     7         lot of others. I forget.
     8              Q.   Would you briefly state for me your
     9         educational background?
     10             A.   I have a bachelors degree from Hunter
     11        College that I earned going at night and worked
     12        my way through.
     13             Q.   And what was your major at Hunter
     14        College?
     15             A.   My major was economics, my minor was
     16        psychology or maybe it was reversed. I don't
     17        remember after all of these years.
     18             Q.   Are you currently married to Caryl
     19        Leventhal, the plaintiff in this case?
     20             A.   Lovingly so.
     21             Q.   And how long have you been married to
     22        Mrs. Leventhal?
     23             A.   We were married on Valentine's Day,
     24        February 14th. I believe it was in 1982, but
     25        it seems like six months. I feel like I am
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1    still on my honeymoon.
2         Q.   And were you married before you were
3    married to Mrs. Leventhal?
4         A.   Yes.
5         Q.   When did that marriage come to an end?
6         A.   In 1979 or 1980. It was 1980, I think.
7         Q.   What was your first wife's name?
8         A.   Patricia.
9    Q. And her family name?
10        A. Cody.
11        Q. And how did that marriage come to an end?
12        A. In fact, I married her because she became
13   pregnant. I wanted to do the right thing. We
14   stayed together for 2 and a half years in
15   marriage, and when we felt David was old
16   enough, which was 2 and a half years, we
17   separated. We had joint custody, though, from
18   the time that he was about 4 and a half or 5
19   years. He stayed with me 90 percent of the
20   time.
21        Q. Your son's name is David?
22        A . Yes.
23        Q. And is that your only -- is he your only
24   child?
25        A. Sir, I have a previous child from a much,
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     1    much earlier marriage. His name is Marc
     2    M-A-R-C.  We were married when we were very
     3    young. He was autistic. The pressure of
     4    autism on the family just broke it up.
     5         Q. Are you still in contact with Marc?
     6         A. I haven't been for a few years. He is an
     7    adult now. I think he is older than you. It
     8    happened a long time ago. For many years, I
     9    was very actively involved. He is in an
     10   institution now.  I was very actively involved
     11   in taking care of him and providing support and
     12   what have you.
     13        Q. Are you in contact with David?
     14        A.   I haven't been in contact with David for
     15   a few years. In his late teens, he dropped out
     16   of school and disappeared. About six months
     17   after, he started living with his biological
     18   mother.
     19        Q. And does he currently live with his
     20   biological mother?
     21        A. No. No.  He dropped out of school and
     22   left. I know he is okay because I lived where
     23   I do for many years since before he was born.
     24   I know his friends.  His friends say that he
     25   asks about Caryl and me. To be perfectly
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1    straight with you, one reason why I haven't
2    followed over the past few years is because I
3    felt given what was going on with the United
4    States Department of Justice and INS and having
5    our lives threatened, he would be better
6    staying out of a very ugly situation.
7         Q. Did David ever live with you and Caryl
8    for any period of time?
9 A. Most of the time.
10        Q.   During what-years did he live with you
11   and Caryl?
12        A.   He lived half the time with Caryl and
13   myself from the time he was -- I may be getting
14   chronologically off a little a year or two -
15   up until he was about -- from two and a half to
16   five. The time was split fifty percent between
17   my former wife and myself and that ended when I
18   saw him with a big bruise on his head.  She had
19   smashed has head against the wall a few times.
20   They found out about it at the school, and Pat
21   just said she is not a maternal person.  She
22   said "well, you take him" which was fine with
23   me. That was great. I raised him from the
24   time he was 5 or 6 until 17 and a half.  Oh,
25   no. No. Shortly after he reached puberty of
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1  13 or 14, my former wife had remarried,
2  and they had bought a brownstone. We all lived in
3  the same neighborhood. We were going through
4  that stage of David you have to do your
5  homework, you are not going out until your
6  homework is done.
7  Pat who tended to view him more as a
8  possession and a symbol of victory, promised
9  him his own room, $25 a week, and he could do
10  anything that he wants.  Well, one thing leads
11 to another. He left and dropped out of
12 school. To a kid, that was a nifty
13 arrangement.
14     Q.   And you testified that you haven't seen
15  or rather that David did not come and visit you
16  because you are in a dangerous situation?
17  A.   Yes. Not until this is over with.
18     Q.   When was the last time that you spoke
19  with David over telephone?
20  A.   Probably 18 years old. This was a few
21  years ago. I hear what is going on from his
22  friends.  [May I] add something, sir?
23  Certainly.  If it is in response to the
24 question.
25  A.   Yes. It is responsive of why David is
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     1    not approached although he will be after this
     2    is over whenever it ends. Since 1998, since
     3    our death threat of April 26th -- may I
     4    finish?
     5         Q.   That is what I wanted to ask you.
     6              For the sake of the record, why is it
     7    that you feel that you are now in a dangerous
     8    situation?
     9         A.   The advent ["Admin"] process beginning in September
     10   of 1996, the INS EEO process was very ugly. It
     11   was obvious that they wanted to kill this
     12   case. I could provide all of the documentation
     13   and instances of how they refused to accept any
     14   of the basis of 2 years of fighting because
     15   they felt that anti-white racism leveled
     16   against the people who were black or affiliated
     17   with the black community through marriage was
     18   something that was too hot to handle, if you
     19   will. After the affidavits in November of 1997
     20   or when they began, we started to get crank
     21   phone calls. This went on for months. Very
     22   similar to the fact and I am not accusing
     23   anything to the fact that when Brenda Grant
     24   began her deposition one day before, we
     25   received seventeen hang-ups.  We received
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     1    hang-ups for a few days after that. It just
     2    stopped. Then again,it could have been
     3    telemarketers. I don't know. In any event,
     4    after the months of crank calls, we got a death
     5    threat on April 26th at 1:30 in the morning.
     6    That went something o the effect -
     7         Q. Of what year?
     8         A. 1998. That we something to the effect
     9    of -- we have it on tape --"You don't know when
     10   to give up you fuckin' Jew.- - You and your loony
     11   wife, we are going to get you Nazi style."
     12   Then, they started to go into the whole thing
     13   of Prozac, you are going to get the full 800
     14   milligrams, which I found out is the probable
     15   beginning of a fatal dose. I would like to add
     16   unstoppingly so, if I might, sir, that I sent a
     17   certified letter to Larry Zief, the deputy
     18   regional counsel for the Immigration and
     19   Naturalization Service telling him about this.
     20   Larry Zief called me up and in a very
     21   mechanical way said, "The US Department of
     22   Justice doesn't sanction this type of
     23   behavior." My response to Mr. Zief was,"Larry,
     24   I know what these people are thinking, middle
     25   age, urban, Jewish, punkie, but you better get
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     1    on the horn to 26 Federal Plaza and stop them
     2    from upsetting my wife because if they go any
     3    further and get within legal range, I am going
     4    to shoot them." He did not respond, but I can
     5    tell you within a few days, everything stopped.
Note: As part of the gang of USDOJ enablers of the terrorism that murders 3,000 innocent Americans on September 11th 2001, Laurence M. Zieff is subsequently made Assistant Regional Counsel for the new Department (Agency) of Homeland Security  You can find him at 70 Kimball Avenue, Room 103 South Burlington, Vermont
     6         Q. The crank calls that you received and
     7    leaving aside the death threat phone call, did
     8    anyone speak during those crank calls or were
     9    they hang-ups?
     10        A. We always keep -- we are private people.
     11   We have few friends, we have two telephones
     12   that are unlisted, we are very wrapped up with
     13   each other. We always have been, and we also
     14   have answering machines on.  There were calls
     15   and hang-ups. When Caryl would pick up the
     16   telephone, there would be either a hang-up or
     17   guttural grunting.
     18        Q. So aside from hang-ups or guttural
     19   grunting, did anyone ever say anything that
     20   either you or Mrs. Leventhal can make out?
     21        A. They never called up and said that they
     22   are from the Department of Justice.
     23        Q. I understand that you -- you referred to
     24   the death threat that there was actually
     25   something said. On any of the other calls, was
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     1    there anything said?
     2         A. No.
     3         Q. And the death threat phone call, the
     4    April 26, 1998, who do you suspect made that
     5    phone call?
     6         A. I think and it is purely speculation,
     7    that it was one of the people called as
     8    witnesses that have been deposed by Caryl
     9    Leventhal that got one of their jerky friends
     10   to call up-and say, let's scare them, let's
     11   scare the Jews.  Let's get them to stop this.
     12   I know how to do it.  I will take care of it.
     13        Q. When you referred to the people -
     14        A. If I may interrupt. What bothers me more
     15   than anything else is because I am a gun owner,
     16   what bothers me more than anything else is that
     17   the United States Department of Justice through
     18   INS didn't give a damn.  For 2 and a half
     19   years, nobody cared because their attitude I am
     20   convinced was if this will get them to drop
     21   this case, good.
     22        Q. Earlier, you testified that you suspect
     23   that people who were deposed as witnesses by
     24   Mrs. Leventhal may have involved their friends
     25   or acquaintances in making these calls.
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M.LEVENTHAL
     1              A. Yes.
     2              Q. At the time leading up to April 26, 1998,
     3         who had Mrs. Leventhal deposed as witnesses?
     4              A. No. What I mean is the people that were
     5         claimed that were mentioned in Caryl's EEO
     6         complaint. That was Brenda Grant and Agatha
     7         Stewart and, of course, you had the people
     8         guilty of omission, Gwen McPherson and Edward
     9         McElroy. Could I be sued if I say something in
     10        a deposition?-.  The two prime witnesses that
     11        were deposed by Caryl's attorney I think was a
     12        friend of one of them.
     13             Q. When you say "the two prime witnesses,"
     14        you are referring to Brenda Grant and Agatha
     15        Stewart?
     16             A. That said.
     17             Q. Is that your testimony, do you suspect it
     18        was either one of those two women or one of
     19        their friends or acquaintances?
     20             A. I think it was one of their friends or
     21        acquaintances.
     22             Q. Was it a man or a woman whose voice you
     23        heard?
     24             A. A man with a Bensonhurst, Brooklyn
     25        accent. Not that I am pointing fingers at
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     1    anybody certainly not from Bensonhurst. It is
     2    a nice place.
     3         Q.   At the previous deposition, I ask to be
     4    provided with a copy of the tape. So I will
     5    make that request again on the record.
     6    Do you still have this answering machine
     7    tape?
     8         A.   Locked in a safe.
     9         Q.   I ask that a recording be made for me and
     10   provided.
     11        A.   May I ask you a question? Is it two-way
     12   or just one question?
     13        Q.   Go ahead and ask the question.
     14        A.   Thank you.
     15        Q.   I may not answer your question.
     16        A.   I understand that. I understand that.
     17             When Caryl told me that you wanted the
     18   tape, my response was, "After 2 and a half
     19   years they didn't care about your safety. Now,
     20   they only care to try to see if they could keep
     21   it from testimony at the trial." Is that really
     22   what this is for, just to keep it from
     23   testimony at the trial or is this truly a
     24   search for the truth?
     25   Mr. Leventhal, I won't answer the
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M. LEVENTHAL
     1    question.
     2         A. Thank you, sir.
     3         Q. You have many venues for publicizing your
     4    case and editorializing about it.
     5         A. Thank you, sir.
     6         Q. You referred to documentation relating to
     7    the EEO process.
     8         A. Yes.
     9         Q. Has all of that documentation -- have
     10   copies of all of that documentation that is in
     11   your possession, custody or control, been
     12   provided in the course of this litigation?
     13        A. I believe so. The only things I don't
     14   believe I sent you were some of the letters
     15   from Larry Zief or from the absolutely
     16   admirable judge at US EEO, William McCauley. I
     17   thought that you had that.
     18        Q. I ask that any documents that you do have
     19   in your possession that relate in any way to
     20   this lawsuit in the EEO process be provided.
     21        A. All right, sir.
     22        Q. When was it that Mrs. Leventhal was first
     23   diagnosed with multiple sclerosis?
     24        A. I believe it was January of 1992.
     25        Q. You sound unsure of the month?
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M. LEVENTHAT .
1    A. I believe she came to me and she said, "I
2    am blind in one eye and it hurts like hell."
3    She still continues going to work. It was, I
4    believe, a new job. She would work holding one
5    eye. We went to an eye doctor and then to a
6    neurologist who told her that it would either
7    be Lyme disease or a sign of multiple
8    sclerosis, and Caryl, not being a doctor, said
9    that I hope it not be Lyme disease because I
10   know what multiple sclerosis was about. She
11   got an MRI, and it was multiple sclerosis.
12   Q. And who was the neurologist who first
13   diagnosed her with multiple sclerosis?
14   A. A Dr. Untericht.
15   Q . Aside from the visit where
16   Dr. Untericht diagnosed Mrs. Leventhal with MS,
17   do you know whether Mrs. Leventhal continued to
18   see Dr. Untericht for treatment?
19   A. We -- there is no treatment. There is no
20   treatment and no cure. I have been following
21   this for years. Whatever quote treatment is
22   done for people that are in desperate straits,
23   it usually doesn't work, and they have terrible
24   side effects.  If you want, I could run off a
25   litany of medications and refer you to the
23
1    neurologist and the magazines of the American
2    Neurological Association.
3    Q.   Perhaps, I mis-spoke (sic).  Did
4    Mrs. Leventhal continue to see Dr. Untericht
5    with respect to her multiple sclerosis?
6    A.   No.  He wanted to see her.  I am a very
7    direct person as I think that you may have
8    gathered.  I asked Dr. Untericht and I said,
9    "Doctor, you are bringing her here, you are
10   taking your optical photos, and you are writing
11   things up for any book that you may have come
12   up with for multiple sclerosis.  There is no
13   treatment or cure, is there?"  He said no.  I
14   said, "We will be seeing you."  I did a lot
15   of reading, and I came up with a diet, a
16   nutritional diet, food preparation, and within
17   a relatively short period of months, she came
18   out of it.  She has been on the diet ever
19   since.  Except with the two exacerbations of MS
20   at INS, she has never had an exacerbation.
21   Q.   Do you know how many visits she had with
22   Dr. Untericht?
23   Three or four.
24   And aside from Dr. Untericht, did you see
25   any other doctors in connection with her

24
M.LEVENTHAL
1    multiple sclerosis?
     2         A. Well, a Dr. Poon who became her family
     3    doctor. Again, I may be a year off or
     4    something like that.  My apologies for that.
     5    My apologies for that.  It was in 1993 or 1992.
     6         Q. Mr. Leventhal, we will have a paper
     7    record. Mr. Leventhal, you said 1993. Are you
     8    not sure?
     9         A. Caryl's deposition gave the proper dates
     10   for everything.
     11        Q. I am not relying on you for the dates.
     12        A. Please don't.  Dr. Poon was recommended
     13   as a very good empathic doctor from the person
     14   that was then Caryl's gynecologist because
     15   Caryl was going in, I believe, at that time for
     16   surgery on fibroid tumors unrelated to multiple
     17   sclerosis. We met Dr. Poon, and he has been
     18   more or less overseeing things. Neither Caryl
     19   or I are what you call, and Dr. Poon knows
     20   this, doctor people in quotes.   We don't run to
     21   doctors all the time just like we don't run to
     22   lawyers all the time.  He is just very good.
     23   He is caring and he has a MD in anatomy. He is
     24   a former researcher always interested in
     25   neurology and what have you and provides
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     1    really, you know, good help and advice,
     2    although, he like I are not believers in
     3    stuffing people with chemistry unless they need
     4    it. There is another doctor, too.
     5         Q. Aside from Dr. Untericht and
     6    Dr. Poon, who else has Mrs. Leventhal visited
     7    in connection with her multiple sclerosis?
     8         A. In 1996 or probably late August of 1996
     9    and after she was terminated from INS while
     10   home critically i11 without warning-, Dr. Poon
     11   said to have a neurologist check her out. I
     12   asked why. He said -- I want to think this
     13   out. It was really very funny. He said "I
     14   don't have a degree in neurology." I said, "Do
     15   you think that he will find something?" He
     16   said, "No. At least that you will have a
     17   neurologist checking her out." She was very
18   depressed.
19        Q. In August of 1996?
20        A. Give or take a month. We went to a
21   doctor -- gee, I forgot his name. He is in
22   Caryl's deposition. We went there, and he did
23   the standard neurologist thing, lift up this
24   hand and lift up that hand. As his response
25   was, "Well, you have got multiple sclerosis." I
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1VI. LEVENTHAL
     1         A. No.
     2         Q.   You testified that this diet that you
     3    helped  to devise you believe that has helped to
     4    alleviate Mrs. Leventhal's multiple sclerosis.
     5    How did you come up with this diet?
     6         A. I did a lot of research on MS, and about
     7    9 years ago, I came up with a view that is now
     8    currently accepted although it was not opted
     9    then that is an autoimmune disease where the
     10   body's, immunilogical system turns upon itself,
     11   and I designed a diet.   It was nothing radical
     12   or scary food preparation. I happen to be a
     13   good cook, vitamins. Again, nothing they can't
     14   get in a vitamin store to more or less help and
     15   maintain that balanced level. As a matter of
     16   fact, I wrote a book about it and I sent it to
     17   a couple of publishers but you need a doctor to
     18   sign off on it and they will publish it.  My
     19   response was to forget it.
     20        Q. Have you ever published any books?
     21        A. Yes.
     22        Q. What you have published?
     23        A.   Technology books have been published by
     24   Macmillan Publishers and Prentice Hall and
     25   how-to books.  I began the whole concept of
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     1    non-complicated how-to books.
     2         Q. What are the titles of the books?
     3         A. MS DOS Quick Start, The Second Edition.
     4    I did work on several other books for Prentice
     5    Hall. They basically took that work, gave it
     6    to an in-house person to save money.  I
     7    complained. On my own, I never contacted a
     8    lawyer, and I spoke to their corporate counsel.
     9         Q. Just the titles.
     10        A. There was MS DOS 5. I haven't written
     11   anything since probably 1993.
     12        Q. In 1992 when Mrs. Leventhal was first
     13   diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, did she
     14   exhibit any symptoms other than the blindness
     15   that you referred to?
     16        A. Yes, she did.
     17        Q . What were they?
     18        A. Unsteadiness in walking, numbness in the
     19   limbs, the standard routine for MS.
     20        Q. Any other symptoms that you can recall?
     21        A. I had it pegged as MS.  I am sure that
     22   there are others.
     23        Q. Are there any others that you can
     24   remember?
     25        A. Double vision, general muscular weakness,
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M.LEVENTHAL
1    headaches that subsequently went away with the
2    diet and didn't come back until 1995 with the
     3    next exacerbation several years later at INS.
     4         Q. When did Mrs. Leventhal first begin on
     5    this diet that you prepared for her?
     6         A. Shortly after Dr. Untericht. It was
     7    within a week or two after we saw
     8    Dr. Untericht.
     9         Q. From the period when Mrs. Leventhal began
     10   on this diets until but not including the
     11   exacerbation in June of 1996, did you notice
     12   any changes in her symptoms of multiple
     13   sclerosis?
     14        A. She had no symptoms with multiple
     15   sclerosis.
16        Q.   So from 1992 to June of 1996 before the
17   alleged exacerbation?
18        A.   Well, 1996.
19        Q.   Before, she did not exhibit any symptoms
20   of multiple sclerosis whatever?
21        A.   She stayed away from heavy physical
22   activity which I stressed.  She performed the
23   full-time job, white collar job, with no
24   physical activity and got fine reviews, and she
25   was very happy.
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M.LEVENTHAL
     1         Q. You said that you stressed no heavy
     2    physical activity.  Was it your understanding
     3    that physical activity was not good for her MS?
     4         A. Well, the whole concept is to maintain a
     5    healthy balanced body so the autoimmune system
     6    was placated, if you will. Physical activity,
     7    and I am speculating now, of course, because I
     8    am not a neurologist either, I am speculating
     9    that number one that physical activity causes
     10   or can cause an increase of adrenaline,
     11   possibly hormonal changes -
     12        Q. I don't mean to interrupt you.  Just to
     13   be clear, I am not questioning you as any kind
     14   of medical expert or a lay expert on multiple
     15   sclerosis. I would like you to restrict
     16   yourself as to the understanding at the time
     17   and the question is based on your understanding
     18   at the time from 1992 to 1995. Was it your
     19   understanding that Mrs. Leventhal ought to
     20   refrain from physical activity?
     21        A. Not from all physical activity.  It was
     22   from things like heavy lifting, strenuous
     23   physical activity that might tax her.
     24        Q. In your understanding at the time, where
     25   was the line between optimal physical activity
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M. LEVENTHAL
     1    and strenuous -
     2         A. Well, you don't have to be a chicken to
     3    know a bad egg.  She walks around, she was
     4    doing some light shopping, I would help her
     5    with the shopping, walking was always
     6    considered good.  Just what is strenuous?  It
     7    is being used as a warehouse man. Strenuous is
     8    working at a non-white collar job with
     9    functions that require physical activity.
     10   Caryl knew--this.  She'd always stay- away. from
     11   that sort of thing.
     12        Q. Based on your observations, did Mrs.
     13   Leventhal's condition remain constant from
     14   approximately the period when she went on this
     15   diet until June of 1995 before the
     16   exacerbation?
     17        A. -Yes. I watch her like a hawk. I love
     18   her.
     19        Q. When in 1995 did Mrs. Leventhal first
     20   exhibit symptoms of what has been described as
     21   the exacerbation of her multiple sclerosis?
     22        A. Late June.
     23        Q. And what symptoms did she exhibit in late
     24   June o f 1995 ?
     25        A. On June 22nd, 1995 because she had given
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M. LEVENTHAL
     1    notice to what was then her place of employment
     2    prior to INS -
     3         Q. Mr. Leventhal -
     4         A. I want to set a chronology.
     5         Q. I will give you an opportunity. The
     6    question is, and I am asking you to limit
     7    yourself to your observation, what symptoms did
     8    you observe in late June of 1995?
     9         A. She went to the hospital while at Reis
     10   Reports on June 22nd which is what I was trying
     11   to get at. They told her we are letting you go
     12   because you gave notice, and we kept you on for
     13   a few weeks longer even though you gave notice,
     14   and they said you are out because we found a
     15   replacement for you. She went to the hospital,
     16   St. Clare's Hospital.
     17        Q. I understand that she went to the
     18   hospital -
     19        A. She was taken there in an ambulance.
     20        Q. What symptoms did she exhibit?
     21        A. She was hyperventilating, she turned
     22   pale, she passed out, everybody was
     23   frightened. It was a trauma.
     24        Q. And how long did she stay in the
     25   hospital?
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M. LEVENTHAL
     1         A.   One day. Shortly after that, the
     2    symptoms began, but she was under stress since
     3    the position at INS was unlawfully rescinded in
     4    late May of 1995.
     5              MR. FISHER: For the record, I don't
     6                   have any documents from
     7                   St. Clare's Hospital.
     8         A.   I have them.  I have taken them out this
     9    weekend.  I can send it to you.
     10        Q.   Mr. Leventhal, I ask that all-exchanges
     11   of documents and so on occur through your
     12   lawyer. I ask that the documents that you do
     13   have, provide it to your lawyer to be provided
     14   to me.  I would also ask that authorizations be
     15   provided so I can ensure that I have a complete
     16   set of the hospital records of Mrs. Leventhal's
     17   stay there in 1995.
     18        A.   Sure.
     19        Q.   Once Mrs. Leventhal was discharged from
     20   St. Clare's Hospital and if you restrict now
     21   from that time until she began work at INS,
     22   what symptoms did she continue to display?
     23        A.   General deterioration, standard symptoms,
     24   very bad headaches, muscle weakness, dizziness,
     25   standard MS symptoms.
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M.LEVENTHAL
     1         Q.   And before Mrs. Leventhal began her
     2    employment with INS in October of 1995, did
     3    those symptoms improve
     4         A.   She was coming out of it in October.
     5    That is why she delayed going on board to INS.
     6    She delayed it by a few weeks so she could
     7    begin her new job on a positive note.
     8         Q.   When she started the new job, did she
     9    have any continuing symptoms of that
     10   exacerbation-in June of 1995?
     11        A.   Not to any extent. The exacerbation in
     12   1995 was nowhere near as bad as the one in
     13   1996 .
     14        Q.   Is Dr. Poon your treating physician as
     15   well?
     16        A.   Well, you could put treating in quotes.
     17   Again, there is no treatment. For me?
     18        Q.   Yes.
     19        A.   Oh, sure, sure. Sure.
     20        Q.   Did you come to use Dr. Poon after Mrs.
     21   Leventhal found him?
     22        A.   Oh, definitely. I just -- I trust him
     23   which     is not easy for me as far as doctors are
     24   concerned. I am a very independent person.
     25             MR. FISHER:    I ask the court reporter
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M. LEVENTHAL
1              to make as Defendant's Exhibit P
2              a report signed by Dr. Poon.
3         [Whereupon, a report was hereby marked
4              as Defendant's Exhibit P for
5              identification, as of this date,
6              by the reporter.]
7    Q.   Mr. Leventhal, please look at what has
     8    been marked as Defendant's Exhibit P. Let me
     9    know whether or not you recognize this.
     10        A. I sure do, sir.
     11        Q. And who prepared this document?
     12        A. When you say "prepared," what do you -
     13        Q. Let me try to break it down. Who typed
     14   the document?
     15        A. I typed the document after speaking with
     16   Dr. Poon, and him telling me what the situation
     17   was as far as his evaluation of Caryl. Then, I
     18   brought it to him. I said, "Is this what you
     19   wanted?" He looked and he says something to the
     20   effect of, "Yes. You are even understating
     21   it." I said that I tried to, you know, not to
     22   put you in a position. After a few weeks of
     23   calling him up and reminding him because
     24   doctors are a little absentminded, I sat down
     25   with him because I had to go back for a
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M.LEVENTHAL
     1    prescription or something.  He said this is
     2    very good. This is exactly, you know, -- I
     3    have understated it and he filled it out and
     4    signed it.
     5         Q. Dr. Poon's handwriting accounts for all
     6    the handwriting on the document?
     7         A. Well, everything else is typing.
     8         Q. Right. Is the handwriting
     9    Dr. Poon's?
     10        A. Definitely.  He studied it very carefully
     11   before he signed it.  I could tell you that.
     12        Q. I will have occasion to take
     13   Dr. Poon's deposition.
     14        A. Okay. Plus, the reason why I typed it
     15   out is because Michael Bressler, Caryl's
     16   lawyer, said that there is a format for filling
     17   it out. I used the legal format for it. That
     18   is why I was the one that did it. I forgot the
     19   name of it. What is it?  Report of condition
     20   and treatment. There has got to be some legal
     21   mumbo-jumbo for this type of thing. It is
     22   supposed to be set  up in a particular way which
23   is why I have done it.
24        Q. Following that format, you prepared this
25   format for Dr. Poon's signature?
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M. LEVENTHAL
     1         A.   Subject to him telling me what he felt
     2    should be in it.
     3         Q.   After Mrs. Leventhal began work at INS in
     4    October of 1995, when was her next exacerbation
     5    of multiple sclerosis?
     6         A.   June of 1996.
     7         Q.   And again, I will ask you to restrict
     8    yourself as to what you observed.
     9              During this exacerbation of her multiple
     10   sclerosis, what did you observe-in terms of her
     11   symptoms?
     12        A.   It started on June 10th. Actually, it
     13   started on June 9th and 8th. That was a
     14   weekend. I will never forget it. Really
     15   relative -- I am not a doctor. I am being
     16   subjective here.
     17        Q.   I am asking you because you are not a
     18   doctor to limit yourself as to what it is that
     19   you observed of her symptoms.
     20        A.   Unsteadiness, weakness to the point where
     21   she could not stand up without rocking or
     22   grabbing something, very bad headaches, severe
     23   headaches which graduated inside a month or two
     24   to really mental confusion.   It sort of like -
     25   I have been at this for 10 years. I have seen
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1    Caryl. I know multiple sclerosis. It is like
2    you see things going downhill in an obvious
3    way, and, you know, it is just going to get far
4    worse if it ever gets better if it ever does.
5    It was really going down that hill very fast.
6    I have never seen it like that before.
7         Q. Did all of these symptoms come on all at
8    once or did it come up in some particular
9    order?
10   A. It never comes on at once  You see the
11 beginnings of things. This just happened
12   really fast.
13        Q. What were the first symptoms to display
14   themselves as you remember it?
15   A. The ones that I have mentioned.
16   Q. When did you first see them?
17   A. The weekend of the eighth and ninth of
18   June, 1996. I know she was very upset for
19   months before that for whatever that is worth
20   which really worried the heck out of me. When
21   that happens,  the balance is knocked off. You
22   know she could be heading for this. She was
23   very upset on June  -- I am trying to help. On
24   June 7th when she got her final review. She
25   came home and she was unbelievably agitated.
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     1         Q. On June 7, 1996 when Mrs. Leventhal
     2    returned home from work, did you have
     3    discussions with her about what had transpired
     4    at work that day?
     5         A. Oh, yeah.
     6         Q. What did she tell you?
     7         A. She was very upset. She had felt for the
     8    past couple of months although I had felt for
     9    months before that she was being set up. Caryl
     10   is optimistic.- They sat her down. She said
     11   Agatha Stewart and Brenda Grant gave her her
     12   intermediate review.  She never received a
     13   final review. They noted on it that
     14   essentially she had done everything wrong.
     15   Agatha Stewart smiled and said something and I
     16   believe Brenda Grant said what she had told her
     17   many times that if you leave now, I will give
     18   you a good reference.  Caryl's response was, "I
     19   have multiple sclerosis. You know that. I
     20   never let multiple  sclerosis beat me, and I
     21   won't let you beat me with this." I am
     22   paraphrasing. It is really close.
     23        Q. When Mrs. Leventhal returned home from
     24   work that day, what else did she tell you that
     25   happened at work on June 7, 1996?
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KLEVENTHAL
1    A. She told me, "They hate me. I tried to
2    work things out. For months,  I tried to work
3    things out. I did it the private sector way.
4    I thought they would be reasonable. I thought
     5    that doing a good job in a department was more
     6    important than their personal feelings about
     7    me, but they don't really care, and they don't
     8    care about their jobs, and they don't care
     9    about me. It is not private industry.   It is
     10   how these people are different with their
     11   attitudes.  They place their own petty crap in
     12   front of the mission.
13        Q. What you just told me, this is based on
14   your recollection of what Mrs. Leventhal told
15   you?
16        A. Certain things you don't forgot.
17        Q. On June 7, 1996?
18        A. Yes. Certain things you don't forget.
19   Caryl speaks flatter.  That is what she had
20   gotten across. They have set me up and I tried
21   everything to be reasonable to work with them.
22        Q. And what did you tell her after she told
23   you this?
24        A.   I was really scared because when I saw
25   her like that, I haven't seen her upset like
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M. LEVENTHAL
     1    that -- I have never seen her upset like that.
     2    Immediately,   I thought to myself "Oh, gee".
     3    You think MS. MS doesn't pop up in a few
     4    days.  You know things have been going on for
     5    months. It is a buildup until it reaches the
     6    wrong term.  It is a critical mass, and you
     7    really see what is going on. I was really
     8    scared because I tried calming her down because
     9    I just felt what could be coming. On the
     10   weekend, she became progressively sicker.
     11             MS. AYERS:     Answer his question. What
     12                  did you tell her?
     13        A.   I just tried to keep her calm. My
     14   apologies.  This is an emotional time that you
     15   are dragging me back into. I understand that
     16   you have to.   It is painful.
     17        Q.   From June of 1996 until today, has Mrs.
     18   Leventhal ever been hospitalized?
     19        A .  No.
     20        Q.   So this June of 1996 exacerbation of her
     21   MS did not require hospitalization?
     22        A.   Well,  MS doesn't -- hospitals can't do
     23   anything with MS.  Sometimes, they just keep
     24   them in there because they can't b e taken care
     25   of at home. I devoted myself to her. She is
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1    my life. She is what it is all about.
2         Q. Does Mrs. Leventhal currently collect
3    Social Security administration disability
4    benefits?
5         A. Yes, sir, she did.
     6         Q. When did you begin collecting those
     7    benefits?
     8         A. I am thinking out loud. She applied -
     9    we applied -
     10        Q. Mr. Leventhal, I don't think you should
     11   think out loud. Consider what your answer is
     12   to the question and provide the answer, if you
     13   know it.
     14        A. She got her first check give or take a
     15   couple of months.   A year after she applied,
     16   and I believe she applied in September of 1996.
     17        Q. Did you assist her in applying?
     18        A. She couldn't do it on her own. She was
     19   by that point completely incapable of
     20   functioning on a regular level.
     21        Q. Did her application  require any medical
     22   exams?
     23        A. Yes.
     24        Q. And who examined her in connection with
     25   her application for SSI benefits?
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     1         A. The names of the people, I don't know.
     2    When you contact Social Security, you will find
     3    out. It was a psychologist and a doctor.
     4         Q. Were there any hearings or did
     5    Mrs. Leventhal have to appear before any SSA
     6    official in connection with the determination
     7    that she was eligible for disability benefits
     8    the first time that she applied?
     9         A. She was rejected which is the standard.
     10   I filled out all of the paperwork. She was
     11   totally incapable of being able to function.
     12   That had affected her short-term memory
     13   skills. She was really in a bad way. I did
     14   all of the writing. They re-investigated. I
     15   don't know the exact word. She was checked out
     16   again by the psychologist, by the doctor, and
     17   they just approved it. She was worse then. It
     18   was a real decline for a long time.
     19        Q. Given Mrs. Leventhal's current condition,
     20   is she now capable of employment?
     21        A. No.
     22        Q. And how long has she not been capable of
     23   employment?
     24        A. Since her exacerbation, I guess, in 1996.
     25        Q. Do you or Mrs. Leventhal have in your
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     1    possession any documents that relate to the
     2    application for Social Security benefits
     3    including the determination, the initial
     4    determination, that she was not eligible and
     5    the subsequent determination that she was
     6    eligible?
     7         A.   I can look.  Sure. Once she was made
     8    eligible, I made her throw out all of this
     9    stuff.    My hard drive was too big.  I may have
     10   deleted some things. I will turn it over.
     11        Q.   To be clear, don't restrict yourself to
     12   what is on the hard drive, but correspondence
     13   that you may have received from the SSA.
     14        A.   Yes. I will have to check.  Can I have a
     15   few days for that?
     16        Q.   Yes.
     17             MR. FISHER:    Let's take a short break
     18                  now.
     19             Read that back, please.
     20             [Whereupon, the requested portion of
     21                  the record was hereby read by
     22                  the reporter.]
23   Q. Mr. Leventhal, are you aware of the
24   circumstances of Mrs. Leventhal's termination
25   from Reis Reports?
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     1         A. Yes.
     2         Q. And how did you become aware of those
     3    circumstances?
     4         A.   Through what Caryl told me, but also from
     5    June 10th, on. I was very involved including
     6    writing the letters and speaking to Brenda
     7    Grant and Agatha Stewart as well as listening
     8    in on the conversations Caryl had with Brenda
     9    Grant and Agatha Stewart.
     10        Q. My question related to
     11   Mrs. Leventhal's termination from Reis
     12   Reports.
     13        A. I am sorry.
     14        Q.   Are you aware of the circumstances of
     15   Mrs. Leventhal's termination from Reis Reports?
     16        A. Yes.
     17        Q. How are you aware of those circumstances?
     18        A. Well,  I know -- I don't want to go into
     19   the whole story. I know that you don't want me
     20   to either.  We live together. We are close
     21   people.   I know the people at Reis Reports. We
     22   have gone to parties with them, company
     23   parties.  Most of them were nice.
     24        Q.   You discussed the circumstances of Mrs.
     25   Leventhal's termination with Mrs. Leventhal, is
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     1    that right?
     2    A.   Yes.
     3    Q.   Did you discuss it with anyone else aside
     4    from Mrs. Leventhal?
     5    A.   From Reis Reports?
     6    Q.   Yes.
     7    A.   I picked Caryl up and took her to the
     8 hospital. You know, I went to Reis Reports. I
     9    got a call from Kerry Shapiro saying that she
     10 was very sick telling her it would be her last
     11   day.
     12   Q.   What day was that when they told Mrs.
     13 Leventhal that it would be her last day?
     14   A.   June 22nd give or take a day or two.
     15   Q.   Of 1995?
     16   A.   Yes, sir.
     17   Q.   Did they tell Mrs. Leventhal that same
     18 day that it would be her last day?
     19   A.   Yes. No notice at all.
     20   Q.   And that same day, she had an
     21 exacerbation of her multiple sclerosis?
     22   A.   The same day she was taken into an
     23 ambulance to the hospital displaying signs of
     24 extreme stress.
     25   Q.   On that day, did you speak to anyone from
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     1    Reis Reports about Mrs. Leventhal's
     2    termination?
     3              A. Getting into a thing with them?
     4              Q. No. Did you have any conversations with
     5    them about the circumstances of
     6    Mrs. Leventhal being told that that would be
     7    her last day?
     8              A.   Kerry Shapiro called me up and said,
     9         "Michael, could you please come over here?"
     10   That is it. -  -
     11             Q. When Mrs.   Shapiro called you, what did
     12   she tell you had happened?
     13             A. She sounded very upset. Kerry was a nice
     14   person. She said, "I think Caryl is not
     15   feeling well. She is sick. Could you come
     16   over as quickly as you can?"
     17             Q.   Did you ever learn from anyone aside from
     18   Mrs. Leventhal why it was that she was
     19   terminated on that date from Reis Reports?
     20             A. You mean directly from them? I think it
     21   is company policy not to keep somebody after
     22   they tell you [S/B "after they give notice"].
     23             Q.   Did you have any conversations with
     24   anyone aside from Mrs. Leventhal about why it
     25   was  that that was her last day at Reis Reports?
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     1         A. I may have spoken to Kerry Shapiro a
     2    little bit about it. She said that it was
     3    company policy. We kept her on. We kept her
     4    on for a few weeks until we found a
     5    replacement.
     6         Q. Do you remember when you spoke to Mrs.
     7    Stewart about that?
     8         A. Probably that day. Kerry was really
     9    upset, too.
     10        Q. I show you what was marked as Defendant's
     11   N    which is a copy of  a copy of the amended
     12   complaint in this action.
     13        A. Thank you.
     14        Q.   Have you seen this document before?
     is        A. Yes.
     16        Q. And who prepared this document?
     17        A. I wrote up a lot of it.  Michael Bressler
     18   wrote up a lot of it.
     19        Q. Did Mrs. Leventhal participate in the
     20   drafting of the complaint?
     21        A. Oh, she looks at everything.
     22        Q. Please describe then what role you had in
     23   drafting this complaint.
     24        A. I am probably more familiar with this
     25   case than anybody.  I work for the association
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     1    of the bar. I know lawyers. I have fought in
     2    the advent [S/B Admin] process for many years alone, and
     3    over the years I have learned -- I am a
     4    writer. Given all of that, given the fact that
     5    I am able to contemplate certain things, a lot
     6    of the narrative I did.  I showed it to Caryl,
     7    and I said, "Does this capture it?" She read
     8    it slowly and said, "Yes, it does." I turned it
     9    over to Michael who did his legal magic work.
     10        Q. When you showed Mrs. Leventhal  a draft of
     11   the complaint, did she make any corrections to
     12   it?
     13        A. She may have.
     14        Q.   And when she proposed those corrections,
     15   did you enter those corrections?
     16        A. She is the commander in chief.
     17        Q. Is that a yes?
     18        A. Yes, sir.
     19        Q. Who actually typed the complaint?
     20        A. I typed up the raw work, the narrative
     21   and what have you.  I E-mailed it over to
     22   Michael. Michael typed the rest, and he was
     23   the one that put it in the format and sent it
     24   back to me for review. I messaged certain
     25   technical aspects of it that has had nothing to
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1    do with the actual case. It went back and
2    forth many times always showing it to Caryl.
3    Then, it was a go.
4         Q. And are you aware that there have been
5    other legal documents exchanged between the
6    parties in this lawsuit?
7         A. Like what and who are the parties?
8         Q. For response to interrogatories and
9    response to documents, yes.
10        A. This is  -- bear with me.
11        Q. I am asking you what you are aware of?
12        A.   So you should understand, all right,
13   Caryl is the commander in chief, I am the chief
14   of staff, Michael Bressler is the field
15   commander and Lila is a co-commander [S/B Corps CDR].  That is
16   the set up.
17        Q. And those other legal documents, were
18   they prepared in the way which is similar in a
19   way to which this was prepared?
20        A. Unless there was a type of document that
21   I have no knowledge of.  We are in federal
22   court. I have been through the battles.
23   Federal court Michael knows.
24        Q. So Mr. Leventhal, you prepared early
25   drafts of each of the documents, and it went
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     1    through this process with Mr. Bressler and Mrs.
     2    Leventhal reviewing the documents; is that
     3    roughly the process?
     4         A.   Right.  Except for  certain things that
     5    are federal in nature in which case Michael
     6    might ask me questions or two, and I will give
     7    him the answers.    I am just not familiar with
     8    formats in the federal sue process.
     9              MR. FISHER:    I ask the court reporter
     10                  -to-      as   Defendant's Exhibit Q
     11                  a copy of certain   pages that I
     12                  have printed off of a web site.
     13             [Whereupon,    a 5-page document was
     14                  hereby marked as Defendant's
     15                  Exhibit Q for identification, as
     16                  of this date,       by the reporter.]
     17        Q.   -Mr. Leventhal,  I am handing you what has
     18   been marked as Defendant's Exhibit Q. Do you
     19   recognize this to be a copy of pages from the
     20   web site Justice-Denied dot net*?
	[*NOTE: The site is www.justice-denied.net]
     21        A.   It is an old copy. Changes may have
     22   subsequently been made.  I am sure they have
     23   been.
     24        Q.   And is this a summary of the
     25   administrative process that you referred to
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     1    earlier?
     2         A. Yes. It is, sir.
     3         Q. Did you prepare the summary?
     4         A. Yes.
     5         Q. And in connection with the information on
     6    the web site, is Mrs. Leventhal also commander
     7    in chief, to use the term that you used
     8    earlier?
     9         A. No. She is not commander in chief. She
     10   is the publisher.   I am the editor. Nothing
     11   gets on unless it is approved by her.
     12        Q. And throughout the administrative process
     13   in this case, were you Mrs. Leventhal's
     14   authorized representative?
     15        A. Yes.
     16        Q. What was the end result of the
     17   administrative process?
     18        A. The end result was after the US
     19   Department of Justice adjudicator admitted that
     20   the EEO counselor had not essentially told the
     21   truth when she made the  affidavit, came out
     22   with an affidavit saying that we had never
     23   wanted the file for religious and racial
     24   discrimination. He had allowed every basis
     25   that we wanted just as we had wanted originally
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1    and planned. I realized that Caryl was not
2    ready for the rigors of  a US EEO evaluation or
3    for going into federal court. I stalled for
4    time, and I filed for an appeal for the US
5    operations. Following it would take a year and
6    it did. By that time, we were ready to jump
7    off and go into the progression of filing suit.
8         Q. And so at that time, you reelected not to
9    pursue the process but elected to file suit?
10 	A. It is rigged. It only works if they want
11   it to work.
12        Q. When you say, "it only works if they want
13   it to work," are you referring to the
14   administrative process?
15        A. Of course. I have documentation for
16   everything. There is no speculation.
17        Q. The document that you have for everything
18   that is contained in Defendant's Exhibit Q, has
19   that been sent to us?
20        A. Except for the   -- except for the letters
21   that Larry Zief had written to William Michael
22   McCauley, the excellent EEO judge. We had
23   three-way conversations. I don't have them on
24   tape between Larry Zief, myself and Judge
25   McCauley. I think this whole page is detailed.
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     1         Q. To him?
     2         A. Yes. Respectfully, that, you know, I
     3    will get together as much of the motions that
     4    Larry Zief made, and I think I sent you my
     5    counterattacks, if you will, that were
     6    virtually all essential.
     7         Q. This is with the earlier issue that we
     8    discussed that is simply all information
     9    concerning the process that you have in your
     10   possession be provided and that includes
     11   information that you may have marked up. I
     12   would ask for copies of any edits or comments
     13   that you have made to any of the documents that
     14   you have in your possession.
     15        A. Oh, sure.
     16        Q. Mr. Leventhal, are you aware that
     17   Mrs. Leventhal claims that she was
     18   discriminated against in the hiring process at
     19   INS?
     20        A. Yes.
     21        Q. And what is your understanding of the
     22   facts on which that claim is based?
     23        A. It is based on the fact that she was made
     24   a formal offer in May of 1995. She was pressed
     25   for a starting date which she gave, I believe
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     1    it was to be June 5th, or something like that,
     2    of 1995. Several days -- she gave notice to
     3    the company in which she had worked and gotten
     4    excellent reviews for 3 and a half years. Five
     5    days she was supposed to begin, she got a call
     6    from , a Robert Brewlay from INS saying that you
     7    can't start. I spoke to Robert Brewlay a
     8    couple of times. He stopped speaking to
     9    Caryl. Caryl, of course -- what else? Should
     10   I continue? I could go on and on. I am a
     11   talkie person.
     12        Q. Let me stop you there. You mentioned
     13   conversations with Robert Brewlay. In your
     14   conversations with --
     15        A. Which occurred because he stopped
     16   responding when Caryl tried calling.
     17        Q. In your conversation, what did
     18   Mr. Brewlay tell you about why it was that
     19   Mrs. Leventhal's start date had been postponed?
     20        A. He said that other people had points
     21   ahead of her. I said,  "What kind of points are
     22   you speaking about?"  He stuttered and said
     23   points. I said, "Other people more highly
     24   rated?" He said, "Well, they claim they are." I
     25   said, "What is the rating process  and
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     1    procedure, Mr. Brewlay?" He stuttered and
     2    couldn't go any further.
     3         Q.   Can you remember anything else about
     4    conversations that you had with Mr. Brewlay
     5    concerning the reason that Mrs. Leventhal's
     6    start date at INS had been postponed?
     7         A.   I remember him saying that this has never
     8    happened before, that people are busting up
     9    opposition.  I don't remember anything else. I
     10   can only speculate. 
     11        Q.   I ask you not to speculate.
     12             Did you have any conversations with
     13   anyone else from INS concerning the reason why
     14   Mrs. Leventhal's start date had been postponed?
     15        A.   No conversations, sir.
     16        Q.   Are you aware that Mrs. Leventhal claims
     17   that during the course of her employment at INS
     18   she was discriminated against based on her
     19   religion?
     20        A.   Yes.
     21        Q.   Did you have any conversations with
     22   anyone from INS concerning discrimination
     23   against Mrs. Leventhal on account of her
     24   religion?
     25        A .  No.
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     1         Q. Are you aware that Mrs. Leventhal also
     2    claims that she was discriminated against not
     3    only in the hiring process but also throughout
     4    her advent there and in connection with her
     5    termination on the account of her race?
     6         A. Yes.
     7         Q. Did you have any conversations with
     8    anyone from INS concerning discrimination
     9    against Mrs. Leventhal on the account of her
     10   race?   
     11        A. When you say "INS," do you mean before
     12   the advent [Admin] process?
     13        Q. Yes.
     14        A . No.
     15        Q. During the course of
     16   Mrs. Leventhal's employment with INS, did you
     17   have any conversations with Brenda Grant?
     18        A. Oh, yes.
     19        Q. And when was your first conversation with
     20   Brenda Grant?
     21        A. My first conversation -- I really should
     22   have looked it up.  I came here without
     23   reviewing anything. The first conversation I
     24   had with Brenda Grant, and by the way, I
     25   listened into all of Caryl's conversations for
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     1    June 10th, 11th and 12th. I heard them all.
     2    Brenda Grant I believe I spoke to after Agatha
     3    Stewart. I believe I spoke to Agatha Stewart
     4    on the 11th. I believe I spoke to Brenda Grant
     5    on the 12th of June, 1996. I did tell her we
     6    have phone logs. Maybe you want to request
     7    that.  I will send you the phone logs. I
     8    believe that phone logs are already encompassed
     9    in documents requested that have been served.
     10   You may have them. I will send them to you.
     11        Q.   We have not been provided with phone
     12   logs.
     13        A. From the telephone company.
     14        Q.   To the extent that you have them in your
     15   possession, you can provide them.
     16        A.   I have records of all telephone calls
     17   that lasted for more than three minutes. Up
     18   until October of 1997, the only phone records
     19   that were kept and available to the public upon
     20   request were those of more than three minutes
     21   of duration. While I don't have all the calls,
     22   I do have some of them, and I will provide it
     23   for you.
     24        Q. Focus now on your first conversation with
     25   Brenda Grant.
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     1         A.   Yes, sir.
     2         Q.   What did she say to you, and what did you
     3    say to her?
     4         A.   A thirty-second background.
     5         Q.   Tell me what you and she said.
     6         A.   I am a libertarian. I assume if you are
     7    going to be speaking to a federal agency, they
     8    are going to be taping this.  I will always
     9    speak very -- not that I am an ill-mannered
     10   person. I would always be calm and deliberate
     11   about my words. I called Brenda Grant, and I
     12   said, "Ms. Grant, this is Michael Leventhal. I
     13   have Caryl standing right here." She was
     14   sitting actually. "She is standing right here.
     15   Before I put her on, I want to ask you, please,
     16   she has an exacerbation of multiple sclerosis.
     17   Please don't upset her." Brenda Grant said,
     18   "She has to speak to me herself." The court
19   reporter cannot really record the way she said
20   it.  I know hate filled her voice. She had
21   it.  I said, "You don't understand. I will put
22   her right on. I am just asking you, please,
23   she is very sick with an exacerbation of
24   multiple sclerosis." She said, "Caryl has to
25   speak to me herself."  I said that I will put
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1    her on right now. I put Caryl on.  I may have
2    missed a few words here and there. Trust me, I
3    don't get a chill easily. I have seen a lot of
4    stuff in my life. This gave me a chill, her
5    voice.
     6    Q    How many additional telephone
     7 conversations did you have with Mrs. Grant?
     8         A. With Mrs. Grant, I only had one personal
     9    conversation though I was listening in on all
     10   of the conversations that Caryl made to
     11   Ms. Grant.
     12        Q. And that one conversation that you had
     13   with her is the one that you just recounted?
     14        A. Yes. I may be missing a few words here
     15   and there. I want you to know I was very
     16   precise of telling her it was an exacerbation
     17   of multiple sclerosis. I was very precise
     18   about her please not yelling, and I was very
19   well-mannered.
20        Q. Have you had any -- you testified that
21   you did have telephone conversations with
22   Agatha Stewart.
23   A . Yes.
24   Q. When was the first telephone conversation
25   that you with Ms. Stewart?
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1    A. The first conversation that I had, I
2    believe, was the day before, and -- I may be
     3    getting a day or two mixed up.  Caryl called
     4    Agatha Stewart. She had a mouth on her. This
     5    is a really crude person. I called up the next
     6    day. Caryl was trying to comply.  She was
     7    really sick and really trying to comply.
     8    Before Caryl called Agatha Stewart up I believe
     9    a second time, and bear with me, I know I
     10   called up Agatha Stewart and I said that this
     11   is Michael Leventhal. I was really nice. I
     12   said, "Caryl Leventhal is really sick with an
     13   exacerbation of --" She  said, "I have nothing
     14   to stay to you and have a nice day."
15        Q.   So she said I can't speak to you have a
16   nice day and hung up?
17        A.   She said that I have nothing to say to
18   you and have a nice day.
19        Q.   Did she hang up on you?
20        A.   Yes. Zoom.
21        Q.   Aside from that telephone conversation,
22   did you have any other conversations with Ms.
23   Stewart?
24        A.   I don't believe so.
25        Q.   Aside from attending their depositions in
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     1    this action, have you ever met Brenda Grant?
     2         A.   No.
     3         Q.   What about Agatha Stewart?
     4         A.   No, sir.
     5         Q.   Is the same true for Mr. Brewlay?
     6         A.   Yes, sir.
     7         Q.   I may have asked you this.  Did you have
     8    any conversations with anyone from INS with
     9    respect to Mrs. Leventhal's claim that  she was
     10   discriminated against on the account of her
     11   race?
     12        A.   Not including the advent process.  I
     13   don't believe so. I don't believe so.
     14        Q.   As I am sure, are you aware of
     15   Mrs. Leventhal's claim that she was
     16   discriminated against on the account of her
     17   disability?
     18        A.   Yes.
     19        Q.   Did you have any conversations with
     20   anyone from INS concerning discrimination
     21   against Mrs. Leventhal on the account of her
     22   disability?
23   A. I don't believe so.
24   Q. When Mrs. Leventhal suffered an
25   exacerbation of her multiple sclerosis
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1    following June 7,1996, when was the next time
2    that she saw a doctor with respect to her MS?
3         A. On June 12th or June 13th.
4    Q.   Who did she see at that time?
5    .A.  Dr. Kam C. Poon.
     6         Q. K-A-M C. Poon.
     7         A. I might add that she could go earlier.
     8    Dr. Poon has two offices.  One is more
     9    convenient. I felt best that  she should rest
     10   and wait until he has office hours than run
     11   over early. When you have an exacerbation of
     12   multiple sclerosis, it is not like they could
     13   give you a shot of penicillin and it goes away.
     14        Q. Did you go with Mrs. Leventhal to that
     15   appointment?
     16        A. Yes.
     17        Q. Were you there when Dr. Poon discussed
     18   her condition?
     19        A. Yes.
     20        Q. What did Dr. Poon say about her
     21   condition?
     22        A. I don't remember very much about it. I
     23   was very angry, very concerned, very scared.
     24   Not angry at Caryl. I was angry at what had
     25   happened. I was angry at conversations at what
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     1    had transpired and the total casualness. Dr.
     2    Poon is a philosophical guy. He said it was
     3    the stress.  You know, he is very soothing in
     4    that respect.  He said it was an exacerbation
     5    of multiple sclerosis. He said that she is
     6    obviously under a lot of stress. He wrote her
     7    a letter saying that Caryl had an acute
     8    exacerbation, please excuse. It was sent right
     9    up to the chain of command and not mentioned in
     10   the termination letter and a standard
     11   procedure. It was saying that she has an acute
     12   exacerbation of multiple sclerosis as well as,
     13   I think, he mentioned hypertension and that she
     14   cannot come back to work for a few weeks.
     15   Immediately, it was sent to everybody from
     16   Brenda Grant to Edward McElroy.
     17        Q. Did Dr. Poon say also that she was
     18   suffering from hypertension?
     19        A. I believe so. I believe he wrote it and
     20   we   saw it there. Hypertension and multiple
     21   sclerosis in Caryl's case go very close
     22   together.
     23        Q. Had Mrs. Leventhal, to your knowledge,
     24   been diagnosed with hypertension before?
     25        A. No. She has low blood pressure and lower
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     1    than normal. She is a perfect insurance risk
     2    except that she is dying.
     3         Q. Did you ever have any conversations with
     4    Mr. McElroy concerning Mrs. Leventhal's
     5    termination at INS?
     6         A.. No. Nobody has ever spoken to him.
     7         Q. Have you ever had any conversations with
     8    Mrs. McPherson concerning Mrs. Leventhal's
     9    .termination from INS?
     10        A . No.
     11        Q. Did you ever have any conversations with
     12   Mrs. McPherson concerning Mrs. Leventhal's
     13   employment at INS?
14        A. No, sir.
15        Q. At the outset of this deposition, you
16   referred to Mrs. Grant and Stewart as the
17   primary discriminators against Mrs. Leventhal;
18   is that fair?
19        A. Yes. They were guilty of culmination [S/B "co-mission"].
20        Q. When you say they "guilty of
21   culmination," in your view, they affirmatively
22   did things that were discriminatory?
23        A. Yes.
24        Q. Did they both discriminate against Mrs.
25   Leventhal on the account of her race?
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     1         A.   Now, you are calling for speculation.
     2         Q.   I don't want a speculative answer. I
     3    will rephrase my question.
     4              Is it your understanding that
     5    Mrs. Grant discriminated against Mrs. Leventhal
     6    on the account of her race?
     7         A.   Given the information that Caryl gave me,
     8    and I have never in my life know this woman to
     9    lie, never, aside from not hurting someone's
     10   feelings about their dress or what have you,
     11   yes. Definitely.
     12        Q.   But your knowledge about
     13   Mrs. Grant is based upon what Mrs. Leventhal
     14   told you?
     15        A.   Yes. And what I pick up against Mrs.
     16   Grant.  The best man at our wedding happened to
     17   be black. This is not a sensitive thing with
     18   us.  I know people. I can tell you that that
     19   woman hated Caryl.
     20        Q.   By the terms of your understanding that
     21   the basis for that hatred was in part racial,
     22   is that based on what Mrs. Leventhal told you?
     23        A.   Based on what Caryl told me was going on
     24   in the office. We are very talkie to each
     25   other.
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     1         Q.   Is the same true for your understanding
     2    as to discrimination by Ms. Stewart against
     3    Mrs. Leventhal?
     4         A.   I know the facts from what Caryl told me.
     5         Q.   Having met Ms. Stewart, are you aware
     6    that she is white?
     7         A.   Yes. White, married to an
     8    African-American and living, I believe, in an
     9    African-American community and having
     10   essentially very, very, very, close affiliation
     11   and identification with the African-American
     12   community.
     13             MR. FISHER:    I ask the court reporter
     14                  to mark as Defendant's Exhibit R
     15                  a letter from Mrs. Leventhal.
     16                  The exhibit consists of five
     17                  pages,    and the letter is dated
     18                  June 13, 1996.
     19             [Whereupon,    a 5-page document was
     20                  hereby marked as Defendant's
     21                  Exhibit R for identification, as
     22                  of this date, by the reporter.]
     23        Q.   Mr. Leventhal, have you seen this letter
     24   before?
     25        A.   Assuming it hasn't been altered in any
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1    way, yes, I have.
2         Q. Take a moment to ensure that it hasn't
3    been altered.
4    A. I wouldn't remember it. I would have to
5 match it up against my records. I will take
6    your word for it now.
     7         Q.   Did you prepare this letter?
     8         A.   Yes, I did.
     9         Q.   And you prepared it for
     10   Mrs. Leventhal's signature?
     11        A.   Yes.
     12        Q.   And Mrs. Leventhal signed it before it
     13   was sent out?
14        A.   Oh, sure. Sure.
15        Q.   Let me refer you to page three of the
16   letter.
17        A.   Right.
18        Q.   Underneath the all caps it states of my
19   desire to survive   --
20        A. Right.
21        Q.   Let me just read into the record the
22   three sentences following that. Unless
23   otherwise instructed by my physician, I shall
24   report to INS personnel on Monday, dune 24,
25   1996. I shall request a transfer and be open
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to any other ideas admen may have. If you wish
to terminate me, I suppose that is your right.
Do you know whether Mrs. Leventhal, in fact,
     4    reported this to INS personnel on Monday, June
     5    24, 1996?
     6         A.   I did. I was upset at her. She was not
     7    well.  She lives up to her commitments. She
     8    also tells me when she does something that we
     9    agreed that she was not going to do.
     10        Q.   Did you go with her? 
     11        A.   No. I did not. I wouldn't have allowed
     12   her to go. When I say "allowed her," only out
     13   of deep concern. She was very ill.
     14        Q.   And when you say you can tell me the
     15   whole story, is that based on what
     16   Mrs. Leventhal told you?
     17        A.   Yes.
     18        Q.   Who did she meet with on June 24, 1996?
     19        A.   She met with Robert Brewlay [S/B "Brouilett"] who seemed
     20   very -- now, I am -- do you want me to go on?
     21        Q.   Tell me what Mrs. Leventhal told you
     22   about that meeting with Mrs. Brewlay.
     23        A.   She went to Robert Brewlay. She was very
     24        -- how did she put it.   A notice that she even
     25   showed you. She said she wanted to deliver
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1    certain packages of information so that it
2    could go into her personnel records including
3    the medical note. She said the man had no
4    courtesy to the extent that he motioned over to
5    her to sit on the chair, and the chair was full
6    of books or papers. She was sitting on the
7    edge. She said that she felt like she would be
8    falling. She said that she would like a
9    transfer, and can you do something about what
10   is going on right now. Again, I am-not reading
11   this. I am winging it. She [S/B "He Said"] said that she
12   can't change things ["... in the middle"]
13   Q. Tell me what you remember.
14   A. There are certain things that stick in my
15   mind. That he forced her to sit in a chair
16   with a lot of papers on it,  and she had to sit
17   on the edge and felt  like she was falling and
18   you can't change things in the middle or
19   whatever that means.   I said, "What the hell is
20   he talking about?"  She said, "I don't know, but
21   he is doing it." He said that you have to speak
22   to Brenda Grant, and Caryl said that she is the
23   one that -- she had yelled at me and this and
24   that.  I can't do anything.  You have to speak
25   to Brenda Grant. Those are the things that --
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     1    some things in life you never forget. You
     2    never forget meanness and humiliation. Things
     3    I never forget.
     4         Q. Do you know whether Mrs. Leventhal
     5    requested a transfer at  that meeting?
     6         A. Yes.
     7         Q. What was Mr. Brewlay's response to her
     8    request for a transfer?
     9         A. I don't change things in the middle. I
     10   can't change things in the middle. That is not
     11   the first time that she asked for